I know I over bet.. advice appreciated

[DOMIT]

I played the 2/5 blind NLHE at Binions this weekend with good success. Mostly I was never called! LOL. I think people recognized that I was tight and when I had something and bet (usually 20-25 depending on the pot size), I would get no callers. Therefore, I know I'm not really getting value for my hands; but up to this point, I've only played NLHE in tourney's where you want to take the pot right away. So, I'd like to outline a couple pots where I had big hands and I know I overbet and see when people have to say. TIA

AA pot:
I'm in set 2, BB is seat 7.
Seat 8 brings it in for a 3x raise of 15 (not much of a read on the guy--over 500 in front of him; I pretty much just sat down at this table after a table change).
Seat 9 flat calls (fairly solid player, played against him the previous day; for him to call, I put him on a big Ace, since no reraise; he was short stacked at about 100).
Seat 10 and seat 1 fold to me, and I see AA. Still 5 to act. With the raise UTG and a call by a solid player, I'm hoping one of them will call a big raise.. but my tournament mentality kicked in and I went (almost) all-in for 300 (I had 320 at that point). Everyone folded, even the raiser and caller.
I obviously didn't get any value for the number one premuim hand and want to know what I could have made it to perhaps get HU with the pre-flop raiser (or do I need more info on his MO?).

99 hand:
One of the very few times there was actually no raise, I'm in late/mid position w/ 99 and there were already several limpers in.
Seat 1 I have witness slow play KK and AK and seems solid, so I didn't feel I could necessarily raise w/ the hand, but I definitely wanted to see a flop.
8 people to see the flop (amazingly high for that table).
Flop comes Q9x, two clubs (neither of my 99s was a club).
Another amazing thing, it got checked, all the way to me in late/mid position. Once again, my tournament thinking kicks in and that I want to end the pot, especially with a flush and straight draw (for anyone w/ JT) on the table, and I shove all-in. Of course, all fold. This one, I feel was a very dangerous flop and I really didn't mind ending it early and getting the 40 in the pot. However, I still wish to see what others feel about how I could have played it differently for a strong hand like 2nd set on the flop.

Thanks again,
Glenn

[Yardbird]

[ QUOTE ]

AA pot:
I'm in seat 2, BB is seat 7.
Seat 8 brings it in for a 3x raise of 15 (not much of a read on the guy--over 500 in front of him; I pretty much just sat down at this table after a table change).
Seat 9 flat calls (fairly solid player, played against him the previous day; for him to call, I put him on a big Ace, since no reraise; he was short stacked at about 100).
Seat 10 and seat 1 fold to me, and I see AA. Still 5 to act. With the raise UTG and a call by a solid player, I'm hoping one of them will call a big raise.. but my tournament mentality kicked in and I went (almost) all-in for 300 (I had 320 at that point). Everyone folded, even the raiser and caller.


[/ QUOTE ]

To get HU in this spot I think that you'd need to make it $65-->$100 to go: You'd still lose the 5 players after you, and most likely the guy in seat-9 as well (unless he's a short-stack specialist). We can discuss this in more detail if you like.

[ QUOTE ]
99 hand:
One of the very few times there was actually no raise, I'm in late/mid position w/ 99 and there were already several limpers in.
Seat 1 I have seen slow play KK and AK and seems solid, so I didn't feel I could necessarily raise w/ the hand, but I definitely wanted to see a flop.
8 people to see the flop (amazingly high for that table).
Flop comes Q9x, two clubs (neither of my 99s was a club).
Another amazing thing, it got checked, all the way to me in late/mid position. Once again, my tournament thinking kicks in and that I want to end the pot, especially with a flush and straight draw (for anyone w/ JT) on the table, and I shove all-in. Of course, all fold. This one, I feel was a very dangerous flop and I really didn't mind ending it early and getting the 40 in the pot. However, I still wish to see what others feel about how I could have played it differently for a strong hand like 2nd set on the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so sure there's anything greivously wrong with your reasoning here; but, you might have left a fair amount of cash in the other 8 stacks (I'd guess the odds that a lot of them were on draws or waiting for a chance to fold). My gut feel would be to make your play just slightly milder, say pot-size (or slightly smaller) instead of your whole stack, that way you're denying them the odds to make their draws if they have them and get the junk hands that could make miracles out.

I'm interested in hearing criticism of these suggestions, if any, also; so, given that I don't purport to be an expert, you should take these suggestions with a grain of salt Glenn. Cheers!

[Garland]

AA hand: Reraise to 100. That might induce one or two calls or possibly a reraise from KK or QQ, which is what you want.

99 hand: Even club draws or J10 draws know instinctually that they will not make their hands often enough to call your big raise. Bet the pot. You want a callers, and if someone has a Q or a draw, they will pay (or raise!). If no one is interested in the pot, there's nothing you can do about it. Just take the $40 and be happy about that.

You simply must adjust between tournaments and live games. You want value for your hands, not to prevent yourself from elimination. Even if you were in a tournament, all-in overbets with nut and near nut hands are not value inducive.

Garland

[DOMIT]

Thank you for your replies...I swear the last time I checked to see if my post was answered, it wasn't [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] So, don't know what happened there, I just happened to check it again today and found your answers. Thanks again.

In retrospect, I definitely agree with the raise to 100 on the AA hand. On the 99, I was figuring anyone with JTc would be a favorite to win, but probably wouldn't call the all-in, but would call a pot bet. Heck, last couple times I was there, people called pot-sized bets with draws only! I know it's wrong to do so, and I should be happy when they do. Anytime someone does something wrong, you gain, right?

Thanks again for the advise, like you both stated, I need to get more value out of my hands when I flop a set.