Weird play begets weirder play

[elindauer]

party 3/6. Pretty good table, plenty of cold-calling preflop. Not much 3-betting, but most hands are played for a raise.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: elindauer is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, elindauer calls...

Let's stop for a moment and discuss this. Flame if you like, but this was simply a small randomization I make once in a blue moon. Note that I was reasonably confident it would be raised behind me.

... <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks,

I start thinking that I'll get what I deserve for failing to raise my aces.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>

Yup. Damn. Why didn't I raise?

SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>,

ok, this is good. Maybe I can thin the field.

<font color="CC3333">elindauer raises</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls...

Nope.

... SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks <font color="CC3333">elindauer bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises</font>...

Crap.

... CO folds, Button calls, UTG folds, elindauer calls.

I realized I've underrepresented my hand thus far and probably need to call down.

River: (14.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
elindauer checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 14.50 BB, between elindauer, MP3 and Button.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by elindauer (14.50 BB).</font>

Results:
elindauer shows Ac Ah (two pair, aces and nines).
MP3 shows Ks Kh (two pair, kings and nines).

KK?! What? Where's the preflop raise? Do you believe this? Why didn't he bet the river? So weird.

Button shows Td 8d (two pair, nines and eights).

Outcome: elindauer wins 14.50 BB.



I don't know if anyone has anything interesting to say about this hand. I'm just posting it because I was so generally confused after it happened. Thanks.

[eh923]

Maybe he too randomized his decision to call using the "blue moon" theory?

[tech]

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty good table, plenty of cold-calling preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given this description, you simply have to raise preflop. No need to get cute.

[ QUOTE ]
KK?! What? Where's the preflop raise? Do you believe this? Why didn't he bet the river? So weird.


[/ QUOTE ]

I bet MP3 posted this hand somewhere and said "AA?! What? Where's the preflop raise? Do you believe this? Why didn't he bet the river? So weird." [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: elindauer is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, elindauer calls...

Let's stop for a moment and discuss this. Flame if you like, but this was simply a small randomization I make once in a blue moon. Note that I was reasonably confident it would be raised behind me.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no shame in attempting a limp-raise (given the right game conditions, which you say were present here) and missing. Limp-raises and check-raises whiff occassionally. [censored] happens.

[Jeff]

Keep it simple, stupid.


I think the only time I ever limped in preflop with AA was in a game with 3 people, one was very, very LAGgy.


I would only make special "adjustments" to my play in shorthanded games to throw someone off, or if there were a few particularly observant players at the table. Otherwise, raise it preflop every single time.

You've learned your lesson.


You said there were plenty of people coldcalling raises, it simply isn't worth giving up that much money.

[Mr Yak]

I'm sure that limping in is a good play at the higher limit tables where people actually bother to check what the other players are running with but in the kind of game you described, chock full with limpers, it's just asking to get beaten.
I learnt this the hard way when I first checked my hands in PokerTracker and saw that AA was the biggest lossmaker I had..so bad it lost twice as much as the next worst hand. This wasn't too much of a surprise: twice in succession I'd had rockets busted by a guy making a runner-runner two pair! (weirdly, in both cases it was someone playing 92o in the seat after me).
It didn't take a Sklansky to realise my mistake was in limping in when I should have put the hammer down. Since then, I've managed to turn my rockets from my biggest loser into a profitmaker...it almost compensates for the immense amount of money I've handed out playing AQ.

It's low limits...raise with them aces!

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that limping in is a good play at the higher limit tables where people actually bother to check what the other players are running with but in the kind of game you described, chock full with limpers, it's just asking to get beaten.
I learnt this the hard way when I first checked my hands in PokerTracker and saw that AA was the biggest lossmaker I had..so bad it lost twice as much as the next worst hand. This wasn't too much of a surprise: twice in succession I'd had rockets busted by a guy making a runner-runner two pair! (weirdly, in both cases it was someone playing 92o in the seat after me).
It didn't take a Sklansky to realise my mistake was in limping in when I should have put the hammer down. Since then, I've managed to turn my rockets from my biggest loser into a profitmaker...it almost compensates for the immense amount of money I've handed out playing AQ.

It's low limits...raise with them aces!

[/ QUOTE ]


I disagree, I think that there are good times to try and limp raise with the rockets. Most of the time it is a raise.
Sometimes though, when #1 you are at a table that does not like to call your raises and you expect to just pick up the blinds by doing so and #2 the players do like to raise too aggressively behind you if you fold or limp... then it is a great way to pick up additional bets plus you usually get them pot committed with inferrior hands. This can get you into trouble if your read is wrong, but hey the rockets do not come with guarantees anyway.

[Mr Yak]

[ QUOTE ]


I disagree, I think that there are good times to try and limp raise with the rockets. Most of the time it is a raise.
Sometimes though, when #1 you are at a table that does not like to call your raises and you expect to just pick up the blinds by doing so and #2 the players do like to raise too aggressively behind you if you fold or limp... then it is a great way to pick up additional bets plus you usually get them pot committed with inferrior hands. This can get you into trouble if your read is wrong, but hey the rockets do not come with guarantees anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have a maniac who'll raise with anything then he might also 3-bet your raise. You can then cap it and if it's just you and him then you have a very good chance of winning a decent pot.

I don't see so much respect for preflop raisers at the lower limit tables such that a raise in early position is likely to cause a cascade of folds to win you just the antes. (I play Party mostly though so that might explain it). I do it to flush out the people playing stuff like 95s or 98o.

[bdk3clash]

Your sample size must be very, very small. I think it's pretty much impossible to lose money with Aces, however you play them, in anything but the very short term.

How many hands are you talking about?