LAP's at Commerce $200 NLHE tables

[DOMIT]

In reading some posts, I see that there are people that advocate pushing w/ AKo preflop with LAP's (Loose-Aggressive-Players) in the game.

I had this situation just this week when the wife and I visited Commerce Casino. I'd seen two LAP's push all-in (or near enough for the other player--i.e. a big bet that covers him) with meduim and small pocket pairs.

One time, the situation was to me this way. They had seen me raise 5xbb (3/5 blinds; $200 buy-in) to 25 w/ AKs (I have around 200 at this point). I'm in late position, only one limper. I make it 25 to go w/ AKo, and one of the LAP's in the BB makes it 200!

First, if this was heads up, knowing his modis operandi, would anyone call all-in?? I would think not, just due to the odds..a wired pair is still the favorite.

Second: instead of raising, should I have pushed? I can't really see that being the right play with only $13 in the pot.

Interestingly, the limper reraised all-in (just re-bought and had slightly more than 200 after winning a small pot). I quickly mucked, thinking the limper might have been waiting for the LAP to raise and slow played a big pair.

As fate would have it, I saved my stack. LAP had 22 and made a wheel on the turn. Limper mucked and stalked off, not showing.

[Paul2432]

First, if this was heads up, knowing his modis operandi, would anyone call all-in?? I would think not, just due to the odds..a wired pair is still the favorite.

It does not matter if the pair is the favorite, what matters is the pot odds. You have pot odds to call against QQ-22 even though you may be a slight dog. Of course, he could have AA or KK in which case you are in trouble, but he could also have AQ in which case you are in great shape (I'll assume someone would raise all-in with 22 would also do so with AQ).

I also think you need to call here against a LAP just to establish that you will not be pushed around.

Paul

[jdl22]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Second: instead of raising, should I have pushed? I can't really see that being the right play with only $13 in the pot.

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No. Your hand is most likely either slightly behind (LAG has small pair) or a big favorite (another big ace). You want to get all in with this guy preflop but pushing isn't the way to get the job done. Raise and let the maniac come over the top then call. LAGs I see tend to like raising rather than calling.

One thing to remember that is often overlooked is how the others are playing. It's easy with a LAG at your table to ignore everyone else. Don't do that. If you push you will only be behind if called by anyone else and maybe him.

For the first question I would call every time with AK if it were heads up. He's going to be pushing with enough unpaired cards to make calling +EV. On the actual hand you haven't given enough information. We can ignore the LAG, the important player here is the limper. Will he make moves with big unpaired cards or can you say he has at least QQ?

[DOMIT]

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Second: instead of raising, should I have pushed? I can't really see that being the right play with only $13 in the pot.

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No. Your hand is most likely either slightly behind (LAG has small pair) or a big favorite (another big ace). You want to get all in with this guy preflop but pushing isn't the way to get the job done. Raise and let the maniac come over the top then call. LAGs I see tend to like raising rather than calling.

One thing to remember that is often overlooked is how the others are playing. It's easy with a LAG at your table to ignore everyone else. Don't do that. If you push you will only be behind if called by anyone else and maybe him.

For the first question I would call every time with AK if it were heads up. He's going to be pushing with enough unpaired cards to make calling +EV. On the actual hand you haven't given enough information. We can ignore the LAG, the important player here is the limper. Will he make moves with big unpaired cards or can you say he has at least QQ?

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The limper who went all-in was a rather new player to the table. During his first orbit, he called a raise from someone UTG and raised all-in on the player on the flop. The UTG raiser raised w/ 66 and had flopped a set, so of course, called. The limper lost his stack and re-bought. Because of this, I think there might have been a little tilt factor going on; but at the same time, he seemed mostly a tight player and I got the feeling from how fast he called the LAP's reraise that he was slow-playing. As stated, I never got to see his cards--he mucked once the river came and the LAP had a wheel.

You stated that HU I would be a favorite enough to call. Do you feel that my fold was correct when the limper went all-in (regardless of the outcome)?

Thanks for the replies [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DOMIT]

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First, if this was heads up, knowing his modis operandi, would anyone call all-in?? I would think not, just due to the odds..a wired pair is still the favorite.

It does not matter if the pair is the favorite, what matters is the pot odds. You have pot odds to call against QQ-22 even though you may be a slight dog. Of course, he could have AA or KK in which case you are in trouble, but he could also have AQ in which case you are in great shape (I'll assume someone would raise all-in with 22 would also do so with AQ).

I also think you need to call here against a LAP just to establish that you will not be pushed around.

Paul

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Even though it's 53% (for the 22) vs. 47% (for the AKo) {as given by twodimes.net}, you're stating that I have the pot odds to call. This is because I already have 25 of my 200 in the pot? [3+5+25+200=233, the blinds, my raise (discounting the limper) and the 200 raise; vs my 175 to call... giving 233-to-175 or 1.33 for a 1.12.. is this correct?)

Once again, this is if the pot was HU. With the limper going all-in, this is a fold?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

PUSHING yourself with AK against a LAP is one thing, but CALLING a huge raise with AK in a tiny pot is quite another. I think you were OK to fold here, knowing you were at least a little behind. With the limper who called it all, your play was very reasonable.

There are some circumstances where I would call a LAP all in with AK, but this is not one of them.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Had this hand been heads up against the LAP, he surely would have had the pot odds, but it would have been very, very close to even. Thus to save variance, folding would still not be bad.

al