Right line with JJ?

RutgersKev · #1 11-22-2005, 01:06 AM

Villian is 19/8/1.3

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Raise the flop? Ir is this the correct line vs. this kinda aggression vs. someone without that high of an aggression rating.

#2 11-22-2005, 01:10 AM

i don't assume that people bet out with trips. Put him on a medium pair that doesn't want you to hit w/ overs and raise the flop. Most cap w/ QQ+ preflop so your probably good. You miss too much value by just calling down. If he reraises you on the flop and his aggression is really low then you can lay it down but only if you know your opp well enough to be sure that your beat (basically just call down).

#3 11-22-2005, 01:18 AM

I think you need to raise this flop to find out where you stand. I don't know what raising hands you've seen from villian, but based on his stats and the fact that he is betting out I don't think he is likely to have a 10. You are the aggressor pf, so I would think he would check raise the flop or turn w/3 10's. I say he has something like 88, 99, AK, or QQ. KK and AA, are also possible, but most people will cap pf w/those hands.

#4 11-22-2005, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you need to raise this flop to find out where you stand.

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Why do people always say this? This isn't the point of a raise, is it?

EDIT: I guess I should have read the whole thread first. Sorry, Ed.

lighterjobs · #5 11-22-2005, 01:49 AM

You need to raise the flop here to find out if he has the overpair/three tens. If he reraises you here he probably has you beat with those stats. I don't see many players with those stats playing AQ/AK like that. so by raising the flop you know where your at for later use in the hand. if he check calls the turn and donk bets the river you might be able to get an extra bet out of 77-99 or maybe even a UI AK.

SteveL91 · #6 11-22-2005, 04:37 AM

Raising the flop isn't likely to tell you much of anything. Unless the guy is incredibly straightforward, he's just as likely to smooth-call with a better hand and either stop-n-go the turn, or c/r the turn. An extension of this - lack of info if he just calls the flop raise - is that it'll very likely shut down QQ, so you still don't know a damn thing. Sometimes, a passive line is fine and appropriate. It wouldn't necessarily be my default line (I don't really have default lines), but it's one I'll use when I know the villain to be tricky, and/or capable of pushing a worse hand.

MisterKing · #7 11-22-2005, 06:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You need to raise the flop here to find out if he has the overpair/three tens.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're 3-bet on the frop, then take a look at the player and decide if his known aggression level dictates that he'd do that with a worse hand. Few players would, esp in 2/4 games. If you raise the flop, he calls and a brick hits the turn, be prepared to bet when he checks. If he donks you on the turn (fancy!), well, that's a tough one... probably call that donkbet and fold the river UI.

lighterjobs · #8 11-22-2005, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You need to raise the flop here to find out if he has the overpair/three tens.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're 3-bet on the frop, then take a look at the player and decide if his known aggression level dictates that he'd do that with a worse hand. Few players would, esp in 2/4 games. If you raise the flop, he calls and a brick hits the turn, be prepared to bet when he checks. If he donks you on the turn (fancy!), well, that's a tough one... probably call that donkbet and fold the river UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's probably how I would play the hand if the flop is three bet.

Ed Miller · #9 11-22-2005, 05:46 AM

Presumably you 3-bet preflop because you thought you had the best of it. Now the flop comes down TT2 rainbow and you get a peculiar donk-bet (not exactly the biggest sign of strength). You should raise.

This is not a way ahead or way behind hand. It's likely you have the best hand, and it's also likely that you'll get at least one raise called. Expect a weaker pocket pair, ace-high, a bluff, or whatever far more often than a ten or a monster. You need to put some more action in.

EDIT: BTW, I'm not comfortable with these responses telling you to raise to find out where you're at. You should raise because you are still likely to have far the best of it, and you gotta get value for your hands to punish weak donk-bets.

BoxLiquid · #10 11-22-2005, 05:52 AM

After reading all the posts it sounds very logical that he doesn't have the ten. I personally raise that flop to see where I stand.

Hi ED. Nice tax article.