Are you an alcoholic?

[dtbog]

If you ask me this question, I will answer 'no'. (I am not anything remotely close.)

If you ask the same question of an alcoholic, he will also answer 'no' -- and people will tell him that this denial is symptomatic of his problem.

This is a common phenomenon -- a certain mental state, disorder, error in perception, etc... is characterized in part by a person's own ignorance of his own state.

- How do you deal with people in a state like this? People are often sent to 'rehab' or 'counseling', but what do they actually do?

- In a 2nd-level-thinking way, doesn't the almost-universal knowledge of this fact make all issues concerning alcohol, gambling, drugs, etc... hard to discuss or assess?

Example:

- "I'm running bad"
- "no, that's selective memory"
- "no, seriously. I haven't won a pot all session. I haven't flopped a set in a week. etc etc"
- "whatever, everyone thinks like that"
~~~~~~
- "i notice you're reaching for another drink."
- "yeah, it's Friday night, I'm out at a party."
- "i bet you can't even stop drinking."
- "I CAN stop, but I don't want to... I drink one night a week and I haven't even had that much"
- "whatever, you're deluding yourself, you are an addict"

[Killer Man's Son]

[ QUOTE ]
If you ask me this question, I will answer 'no'. (I am not anything remotely close.)

If you ask the same question of an alcoholic, he will also answer 'no' -- and people will tell him that this denial is symptomatic of his problem.


[/ QUOTE ]

My answer when somebody asks me this is 'yes'. The first stage of alcholism is denial. I therefore am not because I admit that I am and never reach the first step.

Besides, I'm a drunk, not an alcoholic. Alcoholics go to meetings.

[DWarrior]

Yeah, that's why I always found addiction tests strange.

I'm personally on the other end of the spectrum when it comes to alcohol: I don't drink, but I was in a similar situation when I talked to my parents about Poker.

Me: I play poker
Dad: You're addicted
Me: No, I'm not, I just like the game
Dad: If you're nto addicted, then quit
Me: Why, I like the game
Dad: Then you're addicted

And sometimes I do wonder, at which point does the enjoyment of playing poker turn into an addiction? I do admit that I check the 2+2 forums often, I'd rather watch a WSOP DVD instead of a mediocre movie, and there's nothing quite like checking my rakeback stats in the morning. 1/4 of my bookshelf (OK, so I only have about 50 books), is poker-related. The worst swing I had 4-tabling $50NL was dropping $200 in one day. And yes, if I play good poker for several hours straight and end up down or even because of a few lucky outdraws, I feel a bit upset. After tracking my performance for 2 months, I realized I had been beating my part-time job. Since I moved, I decided to try playing full-time since it allows me a flexible schedule (i generally have 3-hour blocks during which to play, I can't work 3-hour shifts) and seems to pay better than any job I can realistically get (unless I've somehow been on a crazy upswing).

Does that make me a poker addict?

On the other hand, my friend never talks about poker, he's not interested in any of the theoretical background. He hangs out with his friends more than I do (I'm a little introverted). He's also constantly asking to borrow money, which he loses on the tables every night. He's been up and down thousands of dollars in a single day playing from .5/1 to 30/60 until he went broke, but he's only played for a year, and he's not even good. He just finished high school, and he worked for about $50/week, but he could easily drop $100/night on poker.

I just moved out on my own to be closer to my school, I live about an hour away. This guy's trying to make arrangements to either have me drive up or for him to come down so he can give me $50 to transfer to his account (he doesn't have a credit card). Does this make him an addict?

On the other side, Gary Kasparov played chess since he was 7 years old (In Russia, chess was what poker is now in America). Does that make him an addict?

My dad says "Yes", Kasparov is addicted to chess. If that's true, is "addiction" really that bad? A cake-maker who really loves decorating cakes and works 10 hour days, is he a "cake decorating addict"?

How do I know when a strong interest turns into an addiction? On one hand, the inquiry about my own state would suggest that I am not an addict (since an addict doesn't question whether he's addicted or not, he knows he's not addicted). On the other hand, the act of justification suggests addictive behavior.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]

On the other side, Gary Kasparov played chess since he was 7 years old (In Russia, chess was what poker is now in America). Does that make him an addict?

My dad says "Yes", Kasparov is addicted to chess.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess he is, but this is then a pretty funny concept.

Consider then any 9-5 job.

If you like it, you are "addicted"? and if you don't like it, then you're miserable?

Interesting.

[jb9]

All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi, and she wouldn't give it to me.

[CountDuckula]

It seems to me that this is the same no-win scenario posed in the question, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" If you answer 'no', you're admitting that you are continuing to beat your wife. If you answer 'yes', you're admitting that you used to, even though you don't any more. If you try to explain that you don't and never did, you're accused of ducking the question.

Addiction is a real problem, but I think that people should go by much more than, "If you don't want to give up X, that means you're addicted to it". If it interferes with your life on a regular basis, and you still won't give it up, then maybe it's a problem; if it's something you do because you enjoy it, but you keep it in proper perspective, it's not.

-Mike

Addicts will deny they're addicts (at least until they hit bottom).

Incompetents will deny they're incompetents (this has scientific proof).

The human brain is amazing, isn't it?

[DWarrior]

[ QUOTE ]
Incompetents will deny they're incompetents (this has scientific proof).

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I always wondered myself. I've done some web design in high school, and I'm sure you know web design is just like poker: everybody thinks they know everything.

It's funny now coming across my friends who think they know HTML and CSS and know everything, but they really have no idea what's out there. Other times, I'll come across a guy who'll just make me feel stupid because I'll realize that there's so much more to the field than I ever knew.

Kinda like coming to 2+2 forums [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I do run into this a lot at work and in school though, it's pretty annoying.

[ QUOTE ]
But I wore the juice

[/ QUOTE ]