Over aggressive vs LAG?

[JeffO]

Party 15/30 10 handed, the button in this hand is LAG, 32% VP$IP with 13% PFR% and he's already steaming at me since I "sucked out" on the river when an Ace came to help my AK vs his JJ.

I'm in the CO-1 and dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] its folded to me and I open raise CO folds Button 3 bets, blinds fold and I call.

Were heads up and the flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check he bets I call.

Turn is the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] giving me an open ended straight draw and a nut flush draw and I check raise him. Button pauses for a few seconds and calls, I'm fairly certain he just has overcards at this point.

River is a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I bet. At this point I felt like I had to follow thru with my semi bluff to win the pot. I'll post his action and results later.

Opinions on all streets welcome.

[stoxtrader]

I agree the river bet is mandatry given your overcards read. I play it the same way as you will get a better hand to fold more times than the pot is offering you.

[Franchise (TTT)]

Steaming online LAGs don't really fold on the river for one bet. I think it's more of a bet for value that KT or QJ will pay off.

[Rick Nebiolo]

After responding in several places to an Andy Fox thread very late last light then only after an hour of posting do I realize it was three days old maybe it's a good idea to try one where no one has responded yet [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].


[ QUOTE ]
Party 15/30 10 handed, the button in this hand is LAG, 32% VP$IP with 13% PFR% and he's already steaming at me since I "sucked out" on the river when an Ace came to help my AK vs his JJ.

I'm in the CO-1 and dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] its folded to me and I open raise CO folds Button 3 bets, blinds fold and I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't argue with raising A9s first in one off the cutoff. A limp would be awful and a fold too conservative. After his reraise slowing down is right, assuming you will often slow down with very strong hands.



[ QUOTE ]
Were heads up and the flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check he bets I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the flop lead out again although a check-call isn't terrible if you are planning ahead for a turn move. You have a lot going here with two overcards, a backdoor straight, and the nut flush draw. This is also a flop that is unlikely to hit him (given he three bet) but could have hit you (given you only open raised). Note that you don't have so much going that you wouldn't welcome a fold (and a steaming, aggressive button could easily three bet a late raiser BTF with a smaller pair, a weak ace, or relatively weak overcards). Many of these he will now fold (and except for the weak ace you would want the fold).



[ QUOTE ]
Turn is the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] giving me an open ended straight draw and a nut flush draw and I check raise him. Button pauses for a few seconds and calls, I'm fairly certain he just has overcards at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good checkraise. Your draws are relatively hidden here and he has to consider that you have a big made hand. Although checkraising makes the pot bigger, betting out makes it easier for him to become psychologically comfortable with calling down (which you don't want, you only have 15 strong outs and six dubious outs, perhaps 17 outs adjusted). He will give up some of his slightly stronger hands after a checkraise.



[ QUOTE ]
River is a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I bet. At this point I felt like I had to follow thru with my semi bluff to win the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good bet since you will be calling his bet and he won't raise here. Note that he won't throw away small overpairs to the board but he might fold small underpairs (e.g., 55, 44) or a better ace. He is more likely to call with KQ than bluff it off.

~ Rick


PS Don't play enough online to use poker tracking software, what does "32% VP$IP" mean?

[JeffO]

"PS Don't play enough online to use poker tracking software, what does "32% VP$IP" mean?"


It means he Volintarily Puts $ In the Pot 32% of the time which is very high. I think most Tight players are in the 16-20% range.

[JeffO]

The button called me down with his AK and my hand was no good. He told me "nice hand", of course he called me a genius earlier when I "sucked out" on him when my A hit on the river to go with my AK and beat his Jacks.

Looking back I'm not sure the check raise was the play against this oponnent. He was steaming and wasn't going to let anything go that he 3 bet pre flop. Its probably best to make this play against a player that can lay a hand down.

[astroglide]

i don't see any point in checkraising a steaming LAG with high cards

[JeffO]

So what is your play? check/call, check/call, check fold?

I thought about it but it felt so wrong.

[astroglide]

i would check and call the whole way if he's steaming and reraising crap hands, but the only ones i've heard about are JJ and AK. how large is your sample size for the 32% vpip? if you hit you can probably checkraise for sure, and possibly bet/threebet if he's really flying off the handle.

[JeffO]

"i would check and call the whole way if he's steaming and reraising crap hands, but the only ones i've heard about are JJ and AK. how large is your sample size for the 32% vpip?"

The sample size for VP$IP is around 800 hands. I had taken a couple of other big pots from this guy earlier other than the AK vs JJ hand and I knew he was steaming at me from a couple of comments he made earlier.

Since this guy probably isn't going to lay down a small pocket pair or a big Ace I agree that check calling is probably the way to go.