Did I run into an expert?

[Lapper]

I was just playing a single table tournament, $200 buy in and something happened that makes me question everything I know about poker.

I was second chip leader at the table with 2060 chips. The chip leader had about 2600. The blinds at this point were $25 - $50. The chip leader is two off the button and I am the big blind. The player under the gun limps in and so does the chip leader and everybody else folds. I check with 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], the Doyle Brunson hand. So, there is $150 in the pot. The flop comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], giving me two pair and a backdoor flush draw. Since everybody limped in I figured that was a decent hand, but I was afarid of the flush draws so I bet the pot $150 figuring I'd make it expensive for the flush draws. The player directly to my left folded but the chip leader called. So, there is now $450 in the pot. The turn comes A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] giving me my flush draw along with my two pair, but since it is an A there is a possibility of a better two pair or even trips, if he was slow playing AA. He could also have had a better flush draw than me with the hearts or even with the spades. The one thing I didn't put him on was 99, because if I had 99 and the flop gave me trips but there was a flush draw, I would raise, or even go all-in to try to get the flush draws to fold, or at least make it so expensive for them that if they did suck it out, I could give them credit for having guts. So, I bet again, this time $450 and again he just called. By him calling I definitely put him on the flush draw.

The river comes 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], giving me twos full of tens, which I naturally thought was the best hand, so I put in a small bet, thinking if he did have A9, or A with a big kicker and he raised me, I'd reraise all in. That is exactly what happened and he turns over 99, giving him a better full house.

My question to all of you out there is this, did I run into someone who really made an expert play on me and my analysis is flawed, so I need to go back to the drawing board and study some more? Or, was he just afraid the I had pocket Aces when the turn came with the A? I can't believe that would be true. If that is such an expert play that I need to rethink my own playing strategies, tell me what would he have done had the third heart or third spade come and I went all in? Would he then fold his 99? It seems to me that the aggressive play that I am used to, where you play trips aggressively, is a better play over the long run than trying to slow play them, especially with flush draws on the board, but maybe I haven't been playing long enough to know that.

Also, let me say, this play was made online and I am certain I never played with this guy before, so there is no way he could have had some kind of read on me, unless he got some information from one of those Web tracking sites.

Anyway, I would be interested in answers from some of you real poker experts out there.

[DasLeben]

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Did I run into an expert?

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I was just playing a single table tournament, $200 buy in

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Nah. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[bluefeet]

<-- not a poker 'expert', so I don't know if this will make you feel better, but....

I would have made the same exact read. If I'm holding trips, I'm 'most always' raising you on the flop -- certainly on the turn with 2 flush draws (though the latter draw would be less a scare than the first IMO). Anyways...he's getting all of my money.

Perhaps a leak in my own game. If I'm villian, I'm often left wondering if I obtained full value on my hand -- by not 'gambling' to see another card...take more chips, etc.

[Lapper]

Thanks for the support, I appreciate it. I wonder what David Sklansky would say. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[viennagreen]

the two of you were the chipleaders, him ahead a by bit right?

so, many times it's better to play a little softer against someone who can cripple you. i'm sure he thought he had the best hand the whole way-- he just preferred to keep the pot small, win more if you missed a flush draw or lose less if you did hit a flush....

i don't know which is a better play--- playing the trips aggressively or letting you possibly draw to a flush... i think that the answer depends on what percentage of his chips he is risking.

but over the long run, with the amount that you were betting for him, it would be incorrect for you to be drawing to a flush... say you were just calling, and he was betting--- 150 on the flop and 450 on the turn would be reasonable bets for him to make.

[Newt_Buggs]

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[ QUOTE ]
Did I run into an expert?

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I was just playing a single table tournament, $200 buy in

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Nah. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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what das said


him slowplaying a set on a heavy draw board makes me suspect that he wasn't though. Unless of course he knew that you are too weak to bet a draw (which i'm guessing most aren't at the $200s).

[Lapper]

So, in other words, you are saying that if he did put me on the flush draw and I was making the bets I was making, I was actually betting for him the correct amount to make it unprofitable for me?

I do see the point, that I was betting first, so it is unlikely that I would be betting a flush draw. Had I checked, then he probably would have bet, giving me the decision to make.

I wonder what he put me on? My guess is since I limped in on the big blind, and then bet the flop and the turn, that he probably put me on A-10, A-9, or even A-2. He may have even put me on the hand that I had.

Given that scenario, maybe his play was smart. He wasn't afraid of the flush draw and if his analysis was correct, I am drawing to a two outer, and if I did hit my smaller full house, as I did, he still had me beat, like he did and he would take all my chips, like he did. Hmm!

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
the two of you were the chipleaders, him ahead a by bit right?

so, many times it's better to play a little softer against someone who can cripple you. i'm sure he thought he had the best hand the whole way-- he just preferred to keep the pot small, win more if you missed a flush draw or lose less if you did hit a flush....

i don't know which is a better play--- playing the trips aggressively or letting you possibly draw to a flush... i think that the answer depends on what percentage of his chips he is risking.

but over the long run, with the amount that you were betting for him, it would be incorrect for you to be drawing to a flush... say you were just calling, and he was betting--- 150 on the flop and 450 on the turn would be reasonable bets for him to make.

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well done! ty.

[viennagreen]

Yes.

And because you were betting the amounts that he would most likely be betting, he had the advantage of disguising his hand by just calling--- possibly inducing a bluff from you on the river.

I doubt if he knew with any degree of certainty what you had at any point in the hand, but figured to be ahead with most likely possibilities.

[Lapper]

Thank you for the insight. I will reevaluate my own play and hopefully learn something from this.