Asking to see mucked hands

iversonian · #1 02-07-2005, 08:41 PM

I was playing at Commerce a few weeks ago, 2-3 NL. I called a river raise with ace high and lost. A player not involved in the hand asked the dealer to turn over my hand. And then I just went off on him. Didn't raise my voice or anything, just started to lecture him.

Now, I have no problem with emotional control. However, after the 99999th time having these lowbrows ask to see a mucked hand, I snapped. The kicker is, the guy next to him (who I lost the pot to), when asked to confirm if what he did was permitted by the rules, said, "Sure, you want to find out how he plays."

I've often thought about retaliating in these situations by asking the dealer to turn over every hand he shows down, but never actually done it, as I'm not the confrontational type.

How high do I need to play before people stop doing that on a regular (hourly or so) basis? Are there any poker rooms that require a legitimate reason to ask to see a mucked hand?

gazarsgo · #2 02-07-2005, 09:23 PM

To the best of my understanding, this isn't against the rules, so you have no recourse.

Get even on the table, IMO.

Luv2DriveTT · #3 02-07-2005, 09:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
To the best of my understanding, this isn't against the rules, so you have no recourse.

Get even on the table, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Incorrect. It IS against the rules if it is just for information gathering. The rule exists to check for collusion. Next time this happens hold on to your cards and ask the floor to come over while you are checked for collusion. You will have to show them, but the floor won't like it when he has to come over next time. That will put a stop to it for good.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

lapoker17 · #4 02-07-2005, 09:39 PM

Fling your cards into the muck when you know he has the winner. It solves everything.

shadow29 · #5 02-07-2005, 09:46 PM

Throw the cards into the muck.

gazarsgo · #6 02-07-2005, 10:00 PM

Really? Jeeze, shows how much I play B&M [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Now I understand why OP is so upset, too!

iversonian · #7 02-07-2005, 10:40 PM

But that's also against the rules. Otherwise it would defeat the original purpose of having the rule.

bernie · #8 02-08-2005, 04:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It IS against the rules if it is just for information gathering.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it says literally, 'it is only used for collusion'? Funny, in my room, where the rules are posted, it makes no reference to collusion at all.

Btw...People are doing this online all the time with hand histories. Im sure you write to customer service just in case anyone is checking the hand histories, aren't you?

ahhh. The relaxing sound of crickets.

b

bdk3clash · #9 02-08-2005, 04:53 AM

Just suck it up and deal with it. These guys are more interested in what you had than how you play, and they tend to suck big time. I hate leaking information, but the typical angleshooters that pull these moves aren't sophisticated enough to really exploit you very much based on the limited information you're giving up here.

I used to get pissed off when people pulled IWTSTH on me but after an intervention by Scrub now I'm all zen and shit. I just find other stuff to go off on people about.

TT is wrong for just about every cardroom I know of--people are well within their right to request to see a hand that called at showdown for whatever reason they want--even "spite." Having said that, this is a clear distortion of the intention of IWTSTH, which is indeed to prevent collusion. You should let the newish player know (in a friendly manner) what the rule is meant for and that it's considered bad form to (mis)use the rule to "see how someone plays."

If you're friendly with the dealers and floor and tip well and/or consistently, you can usually get away with a quick muck and a dealer scramble before the IWTSTHer knows what's going on, and then plead ignorance.

The most recent time I've had IWTSTH called on me was at a $1-5 stud table with SFer, and the third guy in the hand had every reason to suspect we were actually colluding instead of just donking off like we usually do.

Also, I play at a club in NYC where IWTSTH doesn't apply. I love when people ask to see my hand, because I actually know the rules there. I can't wait for the floor to come over and rule, and then I muck extra slow.

I might start showing my neighbor and then mucking, as they've also abolished the "show one show all rule" there and let you show to whoever you want but not the entire table.

bobbyi · #10 02-08-2005, 05:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To the best of my understanding, this isn't against the rules, so you have no recourse.

Get even on the table, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Incorrect. It IS against the rules if it is just for information gathering. The rule exists to check for collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, just let it go. At the large, large majority of cardrooms anyone dealt in can ask to see a hand. There are few cardrooms in a few places that don't allow it or that only allow it for suspected collusion, but they are by far in the minority. The rule doesn't do anything to stop or detect collusion, as has been discussed on these forums a thousand times. We all agree that asking to see hands is bad etiquette and people who do it are jerks, but that doesn't mean that it's okay to essentially accuse these people of cheating or violating the rules.