zaxx19 says "Get out of the Kiddie Pool and make some moves", so I do

[Tilt]

Im not sure that this is what Zaxx had in mind when he said "make moves". You want to make moves, raise that SC on the button and fire at the flop. If you represent AK here both preflop and postflop you probably take down a decent pot with less risk.

I don't like your flat calls on two streets at all.

Given where you ended up, though...I like the river bluff here, but against 2 players you are only about 50-50 to get the fold you want - alot of the rest of the time you will crash into the nuts. You almost wish, however, that you didnt have position to pull it off, cause its so much less believable that way.

[KowCiller]

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I don't like your flat calls on two streets at all.


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What better way to represent a draw than call, call, bet when the draw hits.

The way I see it, I've got 15 outs twice to win this thing. I cannot put UTG or MP1 on hearts...based on the flop and turn action.

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alot of the rest of the time you will crash into the nuts

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Based on the flop/turn/river action, which player do you think has the nuts?

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almost wish, however, that you didnt have position to pull it off, cause its so much less believable that way

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Can you clarify this? I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.

Thanks for the responses.

KoW

[Tilt]

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What better way to represent a draw than call, call, bet when the draw hits.

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You had a draw. You perceived weakness. Take it down earlier IMO. But since its a weak draw you should just fold. Though granted with reads and a plan to take it down without hitting its ok. I'd rather raise it in in position though, since that represents the flush draw better to me in a multiway pot against thoughtful players (that may not be the case here).
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Based on the flop/turn/river action, which player do you think has the nuts?

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I didn't say that I did thuink they have the nuts. But sometimes they will. Both UTG and MP took lines that could be heart draws, all reads aside. Som percentage of the time they will have the goods.

My comment on position is simple...if you were betting into the field when the heart hit rather than after two checks that would strike me as a more believable representation of the flush. Or a large c/r (very risky) would work as well, but I probably would never do that without crystal reads due to the large expense involved. Also that would require an opponent capable of laying down to a c/r.

[soah]

The way Jason played the flop/turn it's tempting to put him on a flush draw, but I think he'd usually bet the river when he hits. But then again, he likes to trap people and might have decided to let the clueless guy fire at the pot again. The only other hands that makes sense for him are AK or AA. He won't play a big pot with one pair though, so if he does have this you should be able to move him off of it by showing aggression at any point in the hand. I think you may have been better off raising the turn.

[Kaz The Original]

I like this more heads up, without the retard, but none the less this is good.

I don't understand people that want you to take it down earlier. Wait til the flush hits, it's much easier for your opponents to fold that way.

[tripdad]

my only reservation for your play is for the fact that MP1 is such a weak player. normally, when you have position, and draw to your hand and make it on the river, you wouldn't bet so much when they check to you. you'd normally want to make a bet that could easily be called. i think you took care of that problem by betting more than typical.

the downside of inducing MP1 to fold is that now, when you in essence overbet here, UTG may sense you are making a play for the pot, and could check/raise with very little here knowing the weak player in between will fold nearly every time.

cheers!

[soah]

UTG is *extremely* unlikely to invest his entire stack here trying to bluff two players out of the pot. Actually, that doesn't even make sense given his range of hands. If he made his flush he wouldn't be bluffing, and if he has AK or AA he would just call if he believes he has the best hand. This guy likes to make laydowns though. I wouldn't expect him to try to snap off a bluff here.

How much to bet to steal the pot is pretty read-dependent I think. I personally would have bet slightly less, but I don't think betting a little more is terrible.

[tripdad]

i should have said in my previous post that i do like the play overall. there was just that one thing that gave me pause for the play....my main point could also help others to think about when/when not to "make a move".

for what it's worth, UTG would not need to bluff here with all his chips. all he needs is top pair/decent kicker, and to put hero on a bluff. there is one particular player i play with quite regularly where all i need is top pair to check/raise all in there. he absolutely LOVES to play the board like our hero did, and ALWAYS makes close to a pot size bet when he does. conversely, when he actually has the hand, he value bets.

good example: monday night pot limit game. i raise in MP w/AA. he is the only caller, and is in the straddle. the board is a scary J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. i bet $50 into a $55 pot. he calls. turn: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. he bets $125 into me. i call putting him on a dry 9. river is 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. check/check. he tables Q9offsuit. he would not have bet into me if he had the straight, and i knew it. against this player, i would have at the very least called had i been UTG in the OP's hand and had at least top pair. against most any other player at the table, i can fold my aces.

cheers!

[tbach24]

Don't you consider it possible for MP1's flop and turn (two overcalls) to scream a flush draw? If it were heads-up, any decent player would raise the weak bet on the turn with a draw (or any 2 really). However, since it's 3-way and he's almost got pot odds and implied odds (as he's figuring OP was on a flush draw). BTW, the river is pretty bad. A good player might put you on a flush draw, and with the nut flush there on the river, go for the c/r.

[KowCiller]

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Don't you consider it possible for MP1's flop and turn (two overcalls) to scream a flush draw?

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I was the only one that called twice on this hand. On the flop UTG bet, on the turn MP1 bet.

I consider it HIGHLY unlikely for MP1 to have the flush draw and slightly less unlikely that UTG has it given the lines each took.

KoW