QQ - do i have to call this down?

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Hi Vex give me a capping range for an unknown player and look at how many of those hands we would be ahead of maybe 99 or 88 if you want to give him a huge capping range. Hero calls the flop because he has the odds to draw at his gut shot and folds the turn because he doesn't.

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Any hand that is worth raising with preflop. Once it has been three-bet, capping is a decision of how much strength you want to show and why you want to show it. When I three-bet preflop, I expect it to be capped as a matter of course, and I expect the capper to come out betting on the flop no matter what comes. When either of those two things don't happen, then is when I really start to rethink my line.

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He raised UTG and then capped. That is a sign of A LOT of strength. I don't think he's trying to "represent" a hand. You are WAY behind here almost every time.

Miles...

What do you think about raising the flop on this one?

I like it because it really lets you know where you are. If you get 3-bet you may want to throw it away there or even peel and then fold the turn to a bet. What it really does is puts the default agression in your hands, which callign the flop does not. If you get more aggression back you can be pretty sure that your beat.

Thoughts?

Margon

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against AA you have 4 outs. againts AK you have 3 outs. against KK you have 2 outs.

looks good

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In addition, counting these outs as whole outs would be a mistake. The fold looks even better.

Can someone PokerStove this hand. I'd be pretty surprised if the the flop call wasn't -EV.

[milesdyson]

if we raise the flop and he just calls, we have to bet the turn and river and pray he folds KK. is this the plan?

and wtf is with saying we could consider folding to a flop 3-bet if we raise?

for me, his preflop cap has "defined his hand" enough already, to the point where i do not want to raise to "define" it more because i will have to call a reraise, and i may be stuck forced to call a turn bet.

I agree w/ Vex 100% here. I also expect a bet after the pot has been capped preflop. The bet on the flop really gives you no info. Raise on the flop and you'll have a better idea what this guy is about. It's only 1 small bet. If he's not ahead, he probably won't be able to resist just calling here and then you know you have a shot at the pot.

If he 3 bets you on the flop, he's almost guaranteed to have the monster you fear and you can check out now and sleep easy knowing you probably made the right lay down.

Also, this is a large pot at this point in my opinion, you played a strong hand preflop (which is the tight, correct play), so now that the pot is large, get aggressive.

[milesdyson]

this is where i accuse both of you of being trolls

[sean c]

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I agree w/ Vex 100% here. I also expect a bet after the pot has been capped preflop. The bet on the flop really gives you no info. Raise on the flop and you'll have a better idea what this guy is about. It's only 1 small bet. If he's not ahead, he probably won't be able to resist just calling here and then you know you have a shot at the pot.

If he 3 bets you on the flop, he's almost guaranteed to have the monster you fear and you can check out now and sleep easy knowing you probably made the right lay down.

Also, this is a large pot at this point in my opinion, you played a strong hand preflop (which is the tight, correct play), so now that the pot is large, get aggressive.

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Tell me what hands your ahead of.

[deception5]

Somewhat relevant - an article on Raising to find out where we're at

I agree with Miles on this one. We already know where we're at (preflop has definied villian's hand to a very narrow range). We call because we have a gutshot - not because we might have the best hand.

[Vex]

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Somewhat relevant - an article on Raising to find out where we're at

I agree with Miles on this one. We already know where we're at (preflop has definied villian's hand to a very narrow range). We call because we have a gutshot - not because we might have the best hand.

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I don't think a preflop four-bet can narrow a villain's hand range that much. I honestly don't think a cap means much more than an open-raise preflop.

By just calling, you risk being raised by the guy behind you, and I don't think the implied odds are there. If you hit your straight, your hand is too transparent to expect extra calls. If you hit your set, there's a good likelihood someone else made their straight. Even if you hit and are good and get called, the callers can redraw.

You're either way ahead or way behind here. If you know you're behind, you shouldn't call the flop. If you don't know (and I contend that here, the hero doesn't know), then you need to find out which and play accordingly. Raise the bb out of the pot. Raise up the pressure on the villain. Raise your knowledge of whether this is your pot or not.

[milesdyson]

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I honestly don't think a cap means much more than an open-raise preflop.

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ROFL WHAT TABLE YOU AT FISH?