Libs, Dems: What should we do about Miers?

[Matty]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you really trying to use this poll to say that the issues of gay marriage, a woman's "right" to kill her unborn child, higher taxes, and relinquishing our national authority to foreign bodies are supported by a majority of the population?

[/ QUOTE ]No I used other data for that. Scroll up. Actually here's the link (and another). If you're one of those who rejects math, science and polls then I don't see any point in continuing with you.[ QUOTE ]
You really shouldn't use polls to prove points. I talked about specific issues that I feel like hurt the Democrats. This poll is not really relevant to those issues.

[/ QUOTE ]When the issue is public opinion, polls are absolutely essential. You cannot have a worthwhile debate without using them. I suggest you play around with pollingreport.com, people-press.org, surveyusa.com and the like.

[Shaun]

I'm saying that these polls are too general in their terminology and do not address specific, emotional issues that move the public. I don't reject math, in fact, I'm defending math.

[Nytecaster]

[ QUOTE ]
>>You're assuming a recount woulda gave Gore the win. <<

I assume no such thing.

The issue is not who would have won or lost had those Florida votes been counted.

The issue is that the US Supreme court majority (a bare majority of 5-4) used convoluted, twisted, and tortured logic to actually cease the counting of votes.

There was absolutely no reason to stop counting of those votes, unless it was because the majority feared the outcome of counting those votes.

If the Supreme Court had concerns about procedural matters, they could have sequestered the results of the vote count, and made a reasoned decision later.

In their decision, the court majority explicitly stated that their decision in this matter was not to be used as a precedent in future cases.

When the full picture is looked at objectively, this was arguably the greatest travesty of justice in the 20th century , and equivalent in historical terms to the beginning of the fall of the Roman Republic.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG, no wonder democrats are percieved the way they are. This travesty of justice doesn't come anywhere close to Hitler and what he did in the 1940s. Doesn't come anywhere close to what the USSR has done and is an insult to anyone who knows history.

[zipo]

>>OMG, no wonder democrats are percieved the way they are. This travesty of justice doesn't come anywhere close to Hitler... blah blah blah...<<

Of course, I clarified that in the post immediately following the one you replied to. My clarification, in its entirety, is presented immediately below.

But of course you read this clarification, and chose to ignore it. This is the kind of cheap spin, distortion, and outright lies made famous by the Bush gang.

Imagine - those guys put out a full-on media campaign promoting outright lies to drive our nation a bloody and costly war, and then viciously attack the family of a man who exposed their lies.

Fortunately, some courageous, decent people of principle have had enough of these shameful Republican schemes and tactics, and are working to indict and prosecute these malefactors and bring them to justice - Delay, Rove, Libby, Cheney, Frist... In order to heal, America must bear the stench of corruption and face this foulness for what it is.

Between the prosecutors and investigators and the electorate, America will soon be taking out the trash.


>>When the full picture is looked at objectively, this was arguably the greatest travesty of justice in the 20th century<<

To clarify here, I am speaking of the United States judiciary. Moreover, while there may have been instances of more blatant or flagrant abuses of Justice in the history of the court in this century, none has had more far-reaching consequences than the 2000 presidential selection.

[Nytecaster]

[ QUOTE ]
>>OMG, no wonder democrats are percieved the way they are. This travesty of justice doesn't come anywhere close to Hitler... blah blah blah...<<

Of course, I clarified that in the post immediately following the one you replied to. My clarification, in its entirety, is presented immediately below.

But of course you read this clarification, and chose to ignore it. This is the kind of cheap spin, distortion, and outright lies made famous by the Bush gang.

Imagine - those guys put out a full-on media campaign promoting outright lies to drive our nation a bloody and costly war, and then viciously attack the family of a man who exposed their lies.

Fortunately, some courageous, decent people of principle have had enough of these shameful Republican schemes and tactics, and are working to indict and prosecute these malefactors and bring them to justice - Delay, Rove, Libby, Cheney, Frist... In order to heal, America must bear the stench of corruption and face this foulness for what it is.

Between the prosecutors and investigators and the electorate, America will soon be taking out the trash.


>>When the full picture is looked at objectively, this was arguably the greatest travesty of justice in the 20th century<<

To clarify here, I am speaking of the United States judiciary. Moreover, while there may have been instances of more blatant or flagrant abuses of Justice in the history of the court in this century, none has had more far-reaching consequences than the 2000 presidential selection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe instead of your guy Gore asking for another state-wide hand recount instead of hand-picking the ones where he would gain an unfair majority, the case would have been allowed to further continue. As I recall the 5-4 verdict was issued based on time restraints while the 7-2 verdict came about as a fundamental constitutional fairness and equal protection.

You may want to "spin" the facts and use 5-4 as your arguement, but the truth is there was a 7-2 decision in favor of Bush. No where have you mention, nor do I believe you will mention due to the fact it doesn't go along with your "agenda", thus making your remarks about unfair judiciary of the Supreme Court, your travesty of justice.

I can equally say that Roe V. Wade, another 5-4 decision, is a travesty that trumps way beyond whatever implications Bush V. Gore could ever have. You do not hear me crying and whining about this years after the fact. I am merely pointing out that this is possibly the most tragic event in our history of 20th Century Justice, one you clearly ignore based on your political agenda.

If a mother kills her own child is is abortion, but if I kill it without her concent it is murder. How is your tragedy more tragic than that? This is the problem conservatives have with liberals, is anytime they do not win it is a tragedy while us conservatives roll with the punches.

[Nytecaster]

[ QUOTE ]
>>failed to prevent 9/11... he was barely into office... dont ruin the rest of your argument by putting that in there.<<

Bush was in office nearly a year. Bush was in charge. The Bush administration had warnings of exactly this type of attack - even though they denied that they had warning.

It's amazing to me how many people are willing to give this administration a pass on so many errors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clinton had so many chances to get Bin Laden and failed each and every time because it wasn't such a high priority to him. He has even admitted to it although Slick Willy doesn't come out and just say it, he states it through enuendo and other means.

[Autocratic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
>>failed to prevent 9/11... he was barely into office... dont ruin the rest of your argument by putting that in there.<<

Bush was in office nearly a year. Bush was in charge. The Bush administration had warnings of exactly this type of attack - even though they denied that they had warning.

It's amazing to me how many people are willing to give this administration a pass on so many errors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clinton had so many chances to get Bin Laden and failed each and every time because it wasn't such a high priority to him. He has even admitted to it although Slick Willy doesn't come out and just say it, he states it through enuendo and other means.

[/ QUOTE ]

Teach me of this enuendo.

enuendo is what my gramma used to call nintendo.

innuendo, however, is something completely different.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're one of those who rejects math, science and polls then I don't see any point in continuing with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Priceless !!!!!!!!! You're a demagogue in the making.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
I can equally say that Roe V. Wade, another 5-4 decision, is a travesty that trumps way beyond whatever implications Bush V. Gore could ever have. You do not hear me crying and whining about this years after the fact. I am merely pointing out that this is possibly the most tragic event in our history of 20th Century Justice, one you clearly ignore based on your political agenda.

If a mother kills her own child is is abortion, but if I kill it without her concent it is murder. How is your tragedy more tragic than that? This is the problem conservatives have with liberals, is anytime they do not win it is a tragedy while us conservatives roll with the punches.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's lots of things I could say here, but I think an emoticon says it best: [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

------------------------------------

<font color="blue">- "Roe v. Wade is a travesty"
- "Roe v. Wade is the most tragic event in our history of 20th Century Justice"</font>

vs.

<font color="red">- "when conservatives don't win, they never say it's a tragedy"
- "You do not hear me whining and crying years after the fact"
- "conservatives just roll with the punches" <font color="red"> </font>