AK flop play

11t · #1 07-14-2005, 12:09 PM

Does anybody slowdown after the check-raise?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter

CO (t1810)
Button (t1490)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1440)
Hero (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1280)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to t80, 4 folds, SB calls t70, 1 fold.

Flop: (t180) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t120, SB raises to t240, Hero raises to t1420

wiggs73 · #2 07-14-2005, 12:12 PM

with the t1500 starting stacks, you can actually do something besides push or fold. I know playing actual poker is a dreaded thought on this forum, but I'd call and see how the hand develops on later streets. You do have way too good of a hand to fold though.

mlagoo · #3 07-14-2005, 12:17 PM

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with the t1500 starting stacks, you can actually do something besides push or fold. I know playing actual poker is a dreaded thought on this forum, but I'd call and see how the hand develops on later streets. You do have way too good of a hand to fold though.

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the thing is, i think betting out and calling a checkraise screams "i have a draw." which makes it less likely for you to get paid off if you do hit it.

I think you are at worst a 50/50 shot here (I don't think I buy him checkraising here with a set), and with your FE, I think it's worth a push. I like this line.

adanthar · #4 07-14-2005, 12:17 PM

Calling sucks. You're gonna face a big bet on the turn and miss over 2 out of 3 of them.

I'd make it 700 and push any turn. I think you have (slightly) more FE that way than with an outright push.

wiggs73 · #5 07-14-2005, 01:33 PM

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Calling sucks. You're gonna face a big bet on the turn and miss over 2 out of 3 of them.

I'd make it 700 and push any turn. I think you have (slightly) more FE that way than with an outright push.

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You're one of the posters on here whose advice I greatly respect. But I'm not so sure I agree with you on this one.

First off, let's assume that hero is up against a set or a straight. He needs to hit the flush to win, and let's go ahead and assume that he needs to hit it on the turn since he will likely be driven out by a huge bet from villain if a non-flush card hits. And just for the sake of argument, let's say villain won't give him any more action if a flush card hits, so there are no implied odds. Hero does have the pot odds to just call (getting 4.5:1 on a 4:1 shot). If villain has an overpair or is bluffing, then we can count the Ace and King as outs too so his odds become even better. And if you factor in implied odds plus the chance that he won't face too large of a bet to stay around on the turn if he misses, the numbers become even better. Clearly, calling is +EV. I don't know if it is as +EV as raising, but I do think calling is a viable option here. Whether it is the prefered option is a matter of opinion I guess, but I don't think that it sucks.

adanthar · #6 07-15-2005, 01:17 AM

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First off, let's assume that hero is up against a set or a straight.

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I don't play on PS much, but at Party, this is very, very unlikely to be a set. If he has a straight, good for him. You've got between 4-5 clean overcard outs on average.

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If villain has an overpair or is bluffing, then we can count the Ace and King as outs too so his odds become even better.

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Yes we can, which is why it's going to suck a lot when you get pushed off this hand roughly 2/3 of the time (oh, you're also not getting paid when an ace or king turns and 99 shuts down, so 4-5 of these outs aren't worth very much.)

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And if you factor in implied odds plus the chance that he won't face too large of a bet to stay around on the turn if he misses, the numbers become even better. Clearly, calling is +EV. I don't know if it is as +EV as raising, but I do think calling is a viable option here. Whether it is the prefered option is a matter of opinion I guess, but I don't think that it sucks.

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Pushing preflop is +EV, too, but it still sucks.

Don't get me wrong, BTW, I understand what you're talking about and partially agree, but his range doesn't support calling at all. Actually, I may very well be wrong because I don't play on PS and if this is a set obviously calling is better. At Party, it's by and large not.

rydazzle · #7 07-15-2005, 01:45 AM

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First off, let's assume that hero is up against a set or a straight

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58 calls a raise in SB?

Nottom · #8 07-15-2005, 01:51 AM

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First off, let's assume that hero is up against a set or a straight

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58 calls a raise in SB?

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... and i see you completely missed the point.

mlagoo · #9 07-14-2005, 01:54 PM

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Calling sucks. You're gonna face a big bet on the turn and miss over 2 out of 3 of them.

I'd make it 700 and push any turn. I think you have (slightly) more FE that way than with an outright push.

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I can get into this line too. I considered in my first post in this thread recommending a raise to something like 7-800, but decided against it because I thought, ultimately, it was pointless -- I guess I'm not sure that we have more fold equity on the turn with a smaller bet than on the flop with the overbet.

But it's close. I think in order of preference, I like pushing, then raising, then calling, and folding really isn't an option here.

durron597 · #10 07-14-2005, 02:22 PM

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Calling sucks. You're gonna face a big bet on the turn and miss over 2 out of 3 of them.

I'd make it 700 and push any turn. I think you have (slightly) more FE that way than with an outright push.

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