#11
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Re: Absolute 1-2 hand
[ QUOTE ]
This suggests to me that there are problems with always check-raising the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Definitely! It's wrongto always play your hands the same way. Especially with C-Ring you risk giving a free card so if you always C-R then the opponent will take free card and either beat you on the river or fold. My point was that you more likely have the best hand and you can extract more bets without giving free cards. |
#12
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Re: Absolute 1-2 hand
Perfect.
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#13
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Re: Absolute 1-2 hand
From what hands will he extract extra bets?
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#14
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Re: Absolute 1-2 hand
[ QUOTE ]
From what hands will he extract extra bets? [/ QUOTE ] 1. From not giving free cards 2. From those who like to call-down with AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, TT, 99 "TAGs" at low stakes tend to call down more and bluff less (in case the WA-WB line intends to induce a bluff) |
#15
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Re: Absolute 1-2 hand
I doubt he calls down with AQ and AJ. TAGs don't usually 3bet AJ anyway. There are 15 ways TAG can have AA, KK, or AK and 21 ways he can have QQ-99. Often he'll fold his QQ-99 and you'll lose a river bet, and usually he'll 3 bet you with AA, KK, and AK and you'll lose two bets unless you can fold to a 3 bet. Furthermore, pairs lower than a K and AQ & AJ (especially) might check the turn and call the river, while AA, KK, AK will almost never. So you're more likely to be up against AA, KK, AK, to which you'll lose 2 bets by checkraising and less likely to be up against QQ-99 to which you'll probably gain only a 1/2 bet extra since some will fold -- costing you the river bet.
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#16
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Re: Absolute 1-2 hand
I think Villain's 3-betting range and reaction post flop is going to be full ring ABC much more often than you suggest. We're not playing particularly short, and our raise is far from an obvious steal attempt.
I agree that we should vary our lines HU, but this isn't a good time for it when we have a line that's perfectly suited to this situation unless there are metagame considerations that OP isn't sharing with us (we have a history with Villain that plays into things, he has reason to think that we're raising light or lagtastic). I'll start to worry about developing a more comprehensive strategy if it looks like I'll have to deal with Villain more that occasionally outside of steal/resteal situations. |
#17
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Re: Absolute 1-2 hand
Sometimes take this line, sometimes checkraise the turn. As long as you vary your line heads up, both are cool.
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#18
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Re: Absolute 1-2 hand
[ QUOTE ]
There are 15 ways TAG can have AA, KK, or AK and 21 ways he can have QQ-99. [/ QUOTE ] Good. So even by diregarding AQ hands we are still WA (almost). Giving a free card is a just a big mistake. FWIW my personal lines in order: bet-bet and sometimes C-R - bet. The "WA-WB" line when you are ahead is too passive. |
#19
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Re: Absolute 1-2 hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There are 15 ways TAG can have AA, KK, or AK and 21 ways he can have QQ-99. [/ QUOTE ] Good. So even by diregarding AQ hands we are still WA (almost). Giving a free card is a just a big mistake. FWIW my personal lines in order: bet-bet and sometimes C-R - bet. The "WA-WB" line when you are ahead is too passive. [/ QUOTE ] what happens when we check raise the turn when he has: AA - he 3-bets AK - he 3-bets KK - he 3-bets QQ - you give him a chance to fold. JJ - see above. TT - see above. 99 - see above. giving a free card is really bad here? is it? he has 2 or 3 outs, and the pot is only 4.75 bb here. if by giving him a free card i can guarantee he will call a river bet with ace high or an underpair, i will always check. he is giving up much more by calling the river bet than i am giving up by giving him a free look at the river. also, if we're worried about him taking a free card when he doesn't have a better hand than ours, when we get the chance to check raise (ie. when he bets), surely he has a different range, correct? so we're check raising once he has said that he is willing to bet again, which means that we're more likely to be putting in two bets against a good hand (at least by your logic). |
#20
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Re: Absolute 1-2 hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There are 15 ways TAG can have AA, KK, or AK and 21 ways he can have QQ-99. [/ QUOTE ] Good. So even by diregarding AQ hands we are still WA (almost). Giving a free card is a just a big mistake. FWIW my personal lines in order: bet-bet and sometimes C-R - bet. The "WA-WB" line when you are ahead is too passive. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't the point that we don't know if we're ahead or not? |
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