Party 15 SB defence?

[Yerma]

I just wasn't really sure at any point what I should have done with this hand, help plz?

Party 15. CO open raises, I am in SB with Qd4d.

These are the notes I have on CO:
- preflop: J6s, 54s, cold calls (K5s)

I call. BB folds.

Flop is QsJs9h. I check-call.

Turn is 7d. I check-call.

River is Qh. I check-raise. CO calls.

Comments?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i'd fold this preflop.

the rivercheckraise line is a bit risky because there's no guarantee he'll bet the river. i'd probably lead the flop or checkraise it, or do that on the turn.

[surfdoc]

looks like he is pretty awful, but you have a really bad hand. Give this one up preflop and wait until you get a little better hand and 3 bet his ass next time he steals.

[Victor]

Hi Yerma,

If he raises every single hand preflop your Q4 will be a slight dog. Are you good enough to make up a slight amount after the flop; with the worst position; in a small pot?

[Yerma]

Hi all,

I gather people are laying this down preflop which surprises me a little. If there are 3.67 small bets already in there and you have to call 1.33 small bets to join in, I'd think a suited Queen was good enough? Especially from the small blind where you're inducing the big blind to also call. He's getting 5:1 so I'd figure he should call with just about any 2 cards? Honestly, 72o from the BB in that spot against a probably steal raise is ok? Ok, I put 72o down b/c I play like a little girl, but 72s I'd for sure play there.

I think that people are of the opinion that you can put this down b/c you can discourage excessive blind stealing by often 3-betting. I think you'd have to dip pretty low into the ol' hand charts to be 3-betting enough. Stuff like A8o? I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I think you're taking away a lot of postflop play when you do things like that. But I can't guess what approach is +EV.

But really, I didn't think people would fault me for playing the hand preflop. I thought this was going to be a critique of what I did postflop?!

FWIW, he had KdJd.

[fsuplayer]

this might be a defense from the BB, if raiser plays bad and you dont. but its a fold from the SB me thinks.

[Grisgra]

Yeah, I know because of the blind structure you're only putting in 1.33 bets . . . but it's Q4s, man! Ick. At least admit that if you were putting in 1.5 or 1.6 bets that it'd be a fold.

[jogumon]

[ QUOTE ]
These are the notes I have on CO:
- preflop: J6s, 54s, cold calls (K5s)

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands does he raise with? Raising and calling are very different. There are a lot of weak players who call with pretty much anything, but require a real hand to raise, even in steal position. Most weak players won't steal with garbage, only LAGs will. His hand is almost certainly WAY better than yours.

[ QUOTE ]
I gather people are laying this down preflop which surprises me a little. If there are 3.67 small bets already in there and you have to call 1.33 small bets to join in, I'd think a suited Queen was good enough? Especially from the small blind where you're inducing the big blind to also call. He's getting 5:1 so I'd figure he should call with just about any 2 cards? Honestly, 72o from the BB in that spot against a probably steal raise is ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're getting a little less than 3:1 on your call here. I'm sure that if you run this hot and cold against his range of hands, the call would be justified. But, you have to make your decision post flop based on just the flop, The only flops you're really happy with are a flush draw, q high and 2 pair or better. I don't think you see these 1 in 4 flops. Everything else has you putting in money when you're behind.

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I put 72o down b/c I play like a little girl, but 72s I'd for sure play there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm adding you to my buddy list [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
But really, I didn't think people would fault me for playing the hand preflop. I thought this was going to be a critique of what I did postflop?!

[/ QUOTE ]

It appears that everyone thinks pre flop was the worst played street, and I agree. I fold crap like this pre flop without hesitation. I used to call with it a lot, as I was moving up from the low limits, but found it was a huge leak for me, so i plugged it. Even if you play better than the raiser, the +EV from playing this would be tiny, if it exists at all. Wait for a better situaiton.

As for the post flop play, what more were you expecting from the flop? You got top pair, which is about the best you could expect. With the texture of the flop, your opponent probaby some part of it, and you have to charge him to outdraw you. This illustrates the problem with calling with Q4. Even when you hit one of the best flops you could hope for, you didn't like it enough to bet aggressively.

[Yerma]

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