Push from early position with T4s?

betgo · #1 11-30-2005, 11:33 PM

16 players left in $1K supersatellite. 4 players get $17K tournament packages, 3 get $5-3-2K. Blinds 300/600/50.

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t4885)
UTG (t3287)
Hero (t2960)
MP1 (t8560)
MP2 (t6794)
CO (t1825)
Button (t8848)
SB (t11865)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of t300.
1 fold, Hero ???

#2 11-30-2005, 11:39 PM

I'd push.. but I'm super aggro in situations like these.. might as well push when you still have FE because you're gonna almost lose it in a couple hands... also smile is you get called by AK or a similar unpaired hand.

Exitonly · #3 12-01-2005, 12:27 AM

antes or no? hm.. i think i wiat till next hand.

ansky451 · #4 12-01-2005, 01:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
antes or no? hm.. i think i wiat till next hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Blinds 300/600/ 50 .

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless it is a special miniature big blind that comes after a big blind, I do beleive that indicates an ante- but I have been wrong before, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

As for the hand I think I push, but I definitely am willing to get proven wrong. Seems like a gross spot.

#5 12-01-2005, 01:09 AM

The only argument to wait a hand is that you still get a "free" hand before the blinds get to you, and it might be better than 10-high.. but I think the value of one folder is greater than the value of going in with something (possibly) better.

betgo · #6 12-01-2005, 07:16 AM

This is the 2nd hand since the 2nd hour break, where the blinds went up. Previous hand I open folded 43o. I figured T4s was about as good a hand as I would get for this, unless I got a standard raising hand or close. This probavly plays as well against the hands I am likely to be called by as A8o, K8o, or something.

It was suited and the cards should be live. The ten is fairly high, which is an advantage against some pp or Ax callers.

I wasn't crazy about pushing from early position with junk, but I wanted to maintain at least 5xBB. Since it is only slightly EV- against AK/AQ etc., the push is probably somewhat chip EV+.

The alternative is to see if I get a better hand UTG. In the BB, my blind may not be attacked, since it is presumed I would defend. In many situations, I could defend my blind. If I go through paying the blinds, I will have 3xBB to work with in late position.

I thought this was a little interesting, but I probably also wanted reassurance, since I blew a seat in the 5DC pushing with T4s.

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t4885)
UTG (t3287)
Hero (t2960)
MP1 (t8560)
MP2 (t6794)
CO (t1825)
Button (t8848)
SB (t11865)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of t300.
1 fold, Hero raises to t2910, 3 folds, Button raises to t8798, 1 fold, BB calls t4235.

Flop: (t16843) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)

Turn: (t16843) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)

River: (t16843) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)

Final Pot: t16843

Results in white below: 
BB has Ad Qh (two pair, queens and sevens).
Hero has 4h Th (one pair, sevens).
Button has Jc Jh (two pair, jacks and sevens).
Outcome: BB wins t16843.

#7 12-01-2005, 09:40 AM

wait til next hand

the reason i say that is that you have some preflop FE from others to act before you, when they see short stack is in BB. Anyone limping on your blind or raising your blind, knows that they are risking at least the amount in your stack and that there are others still to act behind them. UTG, you may get 6 callers, anything from small PP's to suited connectors and T4s does not play well multi-way. You literally have to flop a monster.

betgo · #8 12-01-2005, 08:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wait til next hand

the reason i say that is that you have some preflop FE from others to act before you, when they see short stack is in BB. Anyone limping on your blind or raising your blind, knows that they are risking at least the amount in your stack and that there are others still to act behind them. UTG, you may get 6 callers, anything from small PP's to suited connectors and T4s does not play well multi-way. You literally have to flop a monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I was in 2nd position. Against a loose/passive table, pushing is probably bad. This is a $1000 entry fee supersatellite with 16 players left, 7 places paying, and 4 seats. I got 2 callers, but they both had big hands. 3 people aren't going to flat call this like in a $100 live tournament.

T4s is 37% against overcards, 30% against 22-99 or AT. It's about 17% against TT-AA, but that is not all that likely. I am putting in 41% of the pot against one player, so my pot odds compensate. I think I had a reasonable chance of taking the blinds and antes are getting called by the BB with a hand that I was not far behind. I think the play is probably slightly chip EV+ at this type of table.

There is something to be said for not having to make a move this hand are next. It is unlikely someone will attack my blind on a straight steal, and I may have a hand I can defend the blinds with pot odds against one opponent.