Sooo many outs. (O/8 hand)

jedi · #1 01-19-2005, 03:14 AM

I'm wondering how I played this hand. Comments please?

Ultimate Bet 3/6 Omaha/8 (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO folds, Jedi raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

I make a button raise here on the strength of A23 with a couple of opponents. Standard?

Flop: (8.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Jedi raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

The flop raise was in an attempt to knock out players behind me so that my 2 pair would have a better chance of holding up.

Turn: (8.16 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Jedi bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Just spewing chips here?

River: (12.16 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Jedi checks.

Damn, low draw didn't get there, I suck.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has As Qd 5d 4c (High: one pair, nines).
UTG+1 has 5h 5c Ad Ac (High: two pair, aces and nines).
MP2 has 4h Ts Kh 2h (High: one pair, nines).
Jedi has Jd 3s 2s Ah (High: two pair, jacks and nines).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 12.16 BB.

Billy Baroo · #2 01-19-2005, 04:25 AM

I'd prefer to take a free card on the turn. Even though there's a decent chance your high hand is best at this point there are a ton of river cards that will swallow up your hand (any overcard, diamond, heart, straight card, or board pairing 9 or 7 looks very scary). It doesn't look like your opponents are going anywhere because they called 2 cold on the flop, so I'd rather just check and hope I make my low. Nevertheless, it seems like a closer decision that usual.

Buzz · #3 01-19-2005, 07:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering how I played this hand. Comments please?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jedi - Fine. You played fine.

I don't think you generally should expect to get rid of anybody by betting the turn, but you do have a lot of outs.

Four outs are to scoop while sixteen outs are for half (or a quarter or sixth) of the pot. The other 24 turn cards are bad for you.

I'd count the 16 half (or quarter or sixth) pot outs as maybe worth 6 scoop equivalent outs (rather than as worth 8 outs). In that case the approximate odds against you are 24 to 10, or about 2.4 to 1. Since you have three opponents, I don't think your turn bet is outrageous. Without the pre-flop raise, which kind of gives your hand away (but which is O.K. if you don't care about giving your hand away), I like the turn bet. Both of them together are maybe a bit much. Are you giving any thought to what your opponents might be holding to call here?

Just my opinion.

Buzz

jedi · #4 01-19-2005, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Are you giving any thought to what your opponents might be holding to call here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm putting one of them on a low draw (maybe even the same low draw as me) and another of them on a flush draw. A T8 is also a possiblity, something like 89T on the flop could call, but when I didn't get check-raised on the turn I felt a little better about my draws. I guess a set was also a possibilty, but since I held a Jack and a 3 it's not as probable.

mosquito · #5 01-19-2005, 09:01 PM

Jedi, I don't care as much for your PF raise. Yes, it
is a +EV raise (you have a very good hand), but your
high threats are limited to the wheel and a baby flush.

There is an argument to get the blinds out, who may
have better heart cards. There is an argument to get
more money into the pot. IMO, it would be better to
have at least one more straggler for the PF raise to
increase my implied odds/dead money, before giving
away my hand.

But still the PF raise is okay.

Having raised PF, the flop play looks fine.

My initial reaction to the turn play is that you
don't want to do this, except as an image play (if
appropriate). Long run it may just be variance.

chaos · #6 01-20-2005, 10:04 AM

I generally do not raise with a nonsuited A23x hand preflop. It is pretty much a one way hand unless you make a wheel. But it does build a nice pot with a strong low hand in best position.

I would not raise on the flop. You have top and bottom pair which is not a very strong hand for high. You have the nut low draw. Anyone else who is going for low and calls two bets cold is likely to have the same low draw as you.

The turn puts another flush draw out there, decreasing your chances of winning high. I would check and hope for a good card.