A2, 3 4 5 suited, better than A 7, A8 suited?

[ADAMtheEXPERT]

Ok, this issue, is not really that significant. But, after two years of GIVING the world over 1000 quality poker articles, I've had to struggle to come up with fresh material. I've just about covered everything. At least that which I'm going to GIVE away.

But, the truth about this issue, must be told. Now, Ax suited, is not really much of a hand (see ATE's CLASSIC article, "the overrated Ax suited" But, in most games that aren't too tough, and ARE loose, it's just about always playable, if you have the skill to play it correctly, and lay down when it's beaten, and you have no flush draw.

But, the thing is: there are a lot of people out there, who actually think that the Ace-baby hands (A2 A3, A4, A5)
are actually better than A6 A7 and A8. Some, won't play the later, but will play the former! This is utter NONSENSE! Like, Toooootally!

They (incorrectly) reason, that with the wheel card they can , well MAKE A WHEEL. I think Sklansky would call this "fuzzy" thinking. ATE calls it "incomplete" thinking.

Well, yes of course you can make a "wheel" with the baby card, but . . . .Is that enough to make the hand better than the A6-A8?, to the extent that you play the ace-baby, but not the six through eight?

Well, that can't be answered in one yes or no word. The fact is, that Ace five suited, is a better hand than ace six suited. This is because the number of times that the six kicker plays, or pairing the six wins, but the five doesn't does not happen as often, as the Ace five makes a wheel. yeah, I know that didn't come out very clearly, but that's one of the things you have to deal with, when you read ATE articles.

Yes, sometimes you will have a gutterball wheel draw, to go with a backdoor flush draw, and this allows you the opportunity to call, where only the BDFD would not.

But, the thing is: Once you get to the A7 and A8, the chance of actually "outkicking" someone, or having a board where you win with the pair of sevens or eights (where a 2, 3, 4 or 5 would not

Occur FAR MORE OFTEN, than the rare times that you'll make a wheel. Not to mention the fact that a wheel, can never be the NUT straight, and sometimes you'll lose to the bigger straight.

Now, when you compare the highest "rag kicker" ace hand, the A9s, to the lowest "rag kicker" ace hand (A2s) you will find that the A9s is SUBSTANTIALLY better than the A2s!! Man, it's not even CLOSE. When playing in a game, where people play ANY ace (which is most games, if they are not in the game you are playing . . . . FIND ANOTHER GAME)
The nine will actually outkick more ace hands, than it loses to.

Actuallyh, this whole issue falls into what I've been saying recently: Don't lump several hands, into a "category"

Look at each hand, INDIVIDUALLY.

Don't say "small pair" or "medium pair" or ACE-X

Each hand, is different from the others. The higher rank of hand you have, the more significant EACH step in increment, is.


Anyway,

(1) know how to play the ace-small suited hands

(2) Avoid them like the plague, in games with tough players, and pots that are always contested short-handed

(3) If you choose to not play certain "Ace-small" hands,

Avoid the A2. this is the worst. if you make a wheel, with A2, the hand that can produce a straight (76) that is bigger, is a normal, everyday hand. With an A3, someone will need the 63 to beat you, when you make a wheel. Although many "customer" players play the hand, it's not nearly as likely, not NEARLY, as the 76.

Same goes for the A4, but with the A5, we find that a 56 will make a bigger straight, and we're back to that being a semi-playable hand.

The A6, is the worst of the lot, as you have no wheel, capability, and the six kicker will very rarely play. Pairing the six, does not offer nearly the chance to win, as pairing an 8 or 9.

Remember this though: When the only thing that can be bet on the flop, is an ace, and you don't even have a backdoor flush draw that you can pick up . . and someone bets

GET THE PLUCK OUT! The whole point of Ace-small suited, is to make flushes, aces up, trips with the kicker card, or at least YOU be the one to show strength, and have no one else have an ace, when you flop one. NOT to hit an ace, and call all the way like a CHUMP, only to be shown the ace large.

Example: Six players play, and you have A4 diamonds

The flop is A 7 J, rainbow, with NO diamond. Someone bets. There is no open end or flush draw that they could be betting. So, FAGETABOUTIT!

Also, in order to even consider "taking one off" if you DO have one of your suit, the pot would have to be considerable.

Reading the texture of the board, when considering going for a secondary and/or "longshot" draw, is ESSENTIAL if you are going to master limit hold em.

And, again ATE will say this: If you are in a game, where things like BDFD's don't even come into play (because it's tough, and the pots are all short-handed.

GET INTO ANOTHER GAME.!

Unless you are a TOP MASTER, at reading the players, and manipulating their actions, you will need loose games, with multi-way (credit to D.S. for inventing that term) pots, to succeed in hold em.

[Matador225]

This cat (though I am not questioning his poker knowledge) really likes to hear himself talk lol.

[pudley4]

Wow, thanks for all the "insight" into Axs. I mean, it's not like this is information we all found out several years ago from running sims w/ Wilson's Turbo Texas Holdem.

Oh wait, we did.

[Justin A]

Can someone do a Cliffs notes?

[Keres]

Gary Carson writes about this exact topic in his book and has the same conclusions as you.

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone do a Cliffs notes?

[/ QUOTE ]

The first part is reasonable:

- Axs isn't a great hand but it's usually playable because your opponents are bad. Don't routinely play Axs in tight, tough games.

- Some people prefer A2s-A5s to A6s-A8s because of the wheel possibility but in fact people overrate this and the latter group of hands are better.

But then some awful advice:

- If you play Axs and flop top pair with no flush draw, the play is to fold.

- ADAMtheEXPERT is the bestest poker player ever.

[stigmata]

There is some evidence that A5 is actually very slighly better than A6. Mentioned somewhere in this paper I believe. It's from iterated roll-out simulations, so you could quibble with the fact that people aren't going to get odds to draw to the gutshot very often.

Nonetheless, A5 is very slighly better for pushing than A6.

[xenthebrain]

yawn

wanna come up with something new?

[ADAMtheEXPERT]

And, your point is . . WHAT, exactly. And, by the way, who the hell is Gary Carson. Never heard of him, much less read the book. Do you think that other than from ATE (which you will get, when you buy my books) THAT THERE IS EVEN ANY SINGLE SOLITARY SUBJECT, THAT HAS NOT BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY BY SOMEONE ELSE.?

ATE teaches the important points, in a much CLEARER, and FUNNIER manner. No one ever said, that I don't discuss GENERAL subjects. I just discuss 'em .BETTER.


For original material, NEVER BEFORE SEEN IN ANY BOOK, you can buy an ATE book, if they are ever available.

B ut, said original topics, are usually NOT just given to the masses, most of whom do NOT appreciate me.

[speirs]

What's your book called? When is it due?