I dont Check-Raise enough?

#1 12-19-2005, 07:26 PM

I have more of a general question, but I figured I would post a hand to go along with it.

Some people have commented on it looking at certain hands Ive played, but it seems that I dont check-raise a whole lot. (especially in short handed where Im scared of getting a hand checked thru) If you are playing 1/2 or 2/4 and your opponents have a tendency to want to call you if you bet, is this really that big of a deal?

So most of the time when I end up in early position and I only have two more opponents I usually always bet unless they are the sort that bets out anything.

Here's a hand that might show this, is there anyway to check raise this hand? At the time I had no stats on my opponents and no reads, but my initial feeling was that they seemed to be inclined to call you down, probally wouldnt fold, but were so passive that they wouldnt take much initiative either unless they hit something big:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP folds, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, Button folds.

#2 12-19-2005, 07:33 PM

Don't raise K9s preflop in this spot, you don't get value out of it, your are oop, and it is not like you want to fold the BB out trying to protect your hand.

c/ring should be done against a preflop aggressor who isn't Hero. Most of the time in shorthand the preflop aggressor will continuation bet the turn, so long as they are not super passive postflop.

A check raise is used when your hand is likely better than the pfr and you want to add value to your hand or protect your hand by charging the players behind you 2 to call.

True

Blunderfull1 · #3 12-19-2005, 07:53 PM

Are you sure you dont get value out of it? I would think that big suited cards with 3 limps would have enough value to raise. c/r this flop would be bad because you were the pf raiser. theres no way to know that someone will bet for you.

kidcolin · #4 12-19-2005, 07:54 PM

They wouldn't take much initiative unless they hit something big, yet you bet/3-bet TP9K after they pop the PFR? Seems inconsistant.

And no, there's no place to c/r this hand. If you had AK or KK, you might choose to call the flop raise and c/r the turn. K9 isn't strong enough in that situation.

#5 12-19-2005, 07:56 PM

I would raise KJs here but not K9s. As far as a c/r...

1 we want to protect our hand- if we c/r a 9 high flop w/ TP and can fold out 2 players or something.

2 we are right before a pfr and want to get value- let him bet, everyone else call and we can c/r for value.

3. when we improve our hand and were not the aggressor on a previous street.

Im sure there are more examples but those are just a few. None of them apply here. Had you not raised PF you could try and c/r for value or for protection, however our hand is pretty safe w/ 1 overcard possible and no draws. Usually I'd just bet this out. Reads are also important since we need someone to bet- nothing worse than giving free cards when we are ahead and they would have called our bet.

#6 12-19-2005, 08:18 PM

Yes I noticed the inconsistancy. Like I said I didnt really have a read yet, it was more of a hunch (more of a generalization really since I had just sat down, had no stats yet and didnt see anyone's cards to see anything obvious).

I thought there was still a decent chance that I was ahead after he raised me, and by 3-betting it, it might help me clear at least one person out at the turn.

From what Ive seen in 1/2 6max is that people will play even TP as a big hand especailly against my seemingly follow up bet so I didnt see any reason to be too afraid I was behind here. I wasnt that afraid of the cold caller(s) because it seemed like they would call anything if they had any part or draw off the flop.

zephed · #7 12-19-2005, 08:23 PM

Hm, interesting pf raise.

Unless you are c/r'ing a pf continuation bet to protect your hand, just bet most of your hands because they will call with air so often, but rarely bet with air.

So yeah, don't worry about it. Blind defense situations are good opportunities to checkraise because a continuation bet is pretty much guaranteed. I'll c/r the flop against weak-tighties/TAGs with a variety of hand values (flop has to come good, your hand sometimes doesn't matter), and for value against fishier players.

KDawgCometh · #8 12-19-2005, 09:45 PM

I don't raise this PF. Other then that, everything looks good. If you didn't raise this PF, I would be more inclined to go for a CR on this flop then how you played it