The Perfect Hand Against the Perfect Opponent

I was re-reading CSC's post on table dynamics (thanks to IHateKeithSmart for posting the link) and caught myself in a very bad habit: reading something rather deep and nodding along as though I knew exactly what he was talking about, when in fact I had a very superficial understanding. This paragraph in particular was the one that tripped me up:

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Waiting for the perfect hand against the perfect opponent: There are times in a tourney when I "just know" that if I can get a hand of this strength against this opponent I can make a killing. I'm DYING to get into a pot with them, but I am waiting too. When it comes, and it rarely comes, it usuaully plays out just like I thought it would. Why? becaues I've known how to play this hand against this opponent for the past hour. I've checked called all the way to the river with a big overpair and I've bet out a 3-flush board with bottom two without position safe in the knowledge that I should have the best hand both times AND that I've extracted the maximum in each situation.


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I'm wondering if he or anyone else could provide a little more analysis here. Perhaps some examples of times when you picked up that perfect hand? Or to take CSC's examples, what would you observe about a player that would make you feel confident betting out bottom two pair on a three-flush board? Or check-calling an overpair all the way? What other 'types' of players do you try to identify, and what would be the perfect hand against each type?

The best instance of this I can point to in my own play is players who will limp, call small raises, and then check-fold any flop that doesn't hit them hard. Against these guys, I'm happy to pick up a wide variety of hands, such as suited connectors, suited broadway cards, or small/medium pairs in position. I'll make a moderate raise, probably 3-4 times the BB, and then continuation bet the flop. It's much more profitable than just taking down the blinds.

I take it this is pretty standard for a lot of people on here, and I think CSC has in mind something a lot more specific. Anyone care to elaborate? I'd be much obliged.

[Che]

I think this is what CSC means:

Perfect opponent- A player who cont bets every flop, bets every time he is checked to, and bluffs big at every scare card. He will bet all the way with nothing unless his opponent folds or raises. He bluffs frequently even when raised. In other words, any hyper-aggressive player.

Perfect hand- Anything that beats TPTK. Sometimes less than that (e.g. TPGK).

I'd like to hear how other people interpret this.

Later,
Che

[HoldingFolding]

Yes, this is exactly what I envisage. Aggressive big stack to your right who's raising a lot of pots. You wait for a big hand then rather than going after him you let him raise into you as he tries to get you off your made hand. By the time you reach the river he's pot committed and will have doubled you up. As the chef says it doesn't happen often, but when it does it's a beautiful wave to ride.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. You make it sound like this is the ONLY case CSC is talking about- am I reading you right? I would look at this as one example of a perfect hand- perfect opponent situation, but I got the impression CSC is envisioning other instances as well. In one of his examples, he is confidently betting bottom two all the way on a three flush board. Wouldn't it take a different type of perfect opponent to play this way? How do you peg a Villain as this type of opponent? What other types are you looking for?

[stokken]

When I read that post I understood it as a reminder to keep your eyes on the everchanging conditions at the table-hence dynamics.

It is to me not a guide to a spesific approach given a specific situation, but rather that what was correct two hands ago is perhaps not so, now.
FI: Bigstack bullying or taking a few liberties against smallstack, gets looked up a few times or looses some coinflipps against smallstacks , looses some of his stack and doesnt feel as comfortable anymore. You are just dying to get a piece of this bully-he raises his usual bullyamount, U with a comfortable stack look down and see TT, normally U would call, even fold(dependent on player read, and again the fold was maybe correct a while ago, but not now!)) to a raise up front or reraise to feel the waters, but not risk your entire stack at this point, but now u feel "Finally I am gonna get some of your chips or let u know I am not to be bullied" and push, he flipps over AA BOOM!!He has thightened up and decided to conserve his stack. 3 hands ago this would be a move he could do with 72os. Now your dead.
It is also a point to take in on oneself, gearchanging so that the opposition is not waiting around for the perfect hand to play u with! IMO

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When I read that post I understood it as a reminder to keep your eyes on the everchanging conditions at the table-hence dynamics.

It is to me not a guide to a spesific approach given a specific situation, but rather that what was correct two hands ago is perhaps not so, now.
FI: Bigstack bullying or taking a few liberties against smallstack, gets looked up a few times or looses some coinflipps against smallstacks , looses some of his stack and doesnt feel as comfortable anymore. You are just dying to get a piece of this bully-he raises his usual bullyamount, U with a comfortable stack look down and see TT, normally U would call, even fold(dependent on player read, and again the fold was maybe correct a while ago, but not now!)) to a raise up front or reraise to feel the waters, but not risk your entire stack at this point, but now u feel "Finally I am gonna get some of your chips or let u know I am not to be bullied" and push, he flipps over AA BOOM!!He has thightened up and decided to conserve his stack. 3 hands ago this would be a move he could do with 72os. Now your dead.
It is also a point to take in on oneself, gearchanging so that the opposition is not waiting around for the perfect hand to play u with! IMO

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I agree that's what most of the post about, but the paragraph in particular that I quoted, he is talking about observing something about an opponent and identifying a perfect situation to be in against that opponent. He gave two examples of this, and I'm asking for elaboration on those and maybe some other examples as well, so that we can get a better idea of what would constitute a perfect hand against a perfect opponent.

[hurlyburly]

I take this a step further and try to glean information about other players as well. Once you classify a "target" like this and start the waiting game, you get a lot more info about the people he's playing against. Mostly, I notice someone else who's picked up on his negative tendencies and exploits them the same way I would or peg the ones that his style is defeating and look for good spots to apply the same tactics.

Then after you sort it all out, the table breaks.

I'm pretty sure that he's talking about opponents who he knows will play a certain way against him in a certain situation. For the three-flush, he knew more or less exactly how the opponent would play against him if the opponent had a flush, if he didn't, etc. so he can confidently bet and extract as much as he can out of the other guy's top pair. Of course, the perfect opponent for this type of situation is the one that bets hard on the flop and turn with a flush draw (or anything else that can't beat a two pair), and then you can shove all your chips in on the turn for either free money or a very nice favorite if he calls.

The flush draw example is a good example because it's probably the easiest to spot(it was for me), but it's not as easy to do because you're shoving all your chips in when he could have just been value betting with trips to try to drive you out of a flush draw. This means that you need to be able to spot that he plays a made flush/trips in a very predictable fashion, while also playing flush draws in a very predictable fashion. These types of players are more common than you may think, but it takes a keen sense of observation to first figure out that the opponent plays it that way, and then a good deal of waiting getting into a three-flush situation with 2-pair or better yourself.

Also, be sure to realize that extracting the most money with 2-pair is only half of it. The other half of why this situation is so perfect against the perfect opponent is that you know when your 2-pair is beaten. You lose the least and win the most, that's how you win at poker.