WSoP ME Hand

[PancakeBoy]

Go into tank and reluctantly call trying to induce a bluff on the river making it seem you'd fold if pushed against w/more pressure

[dmk]

I agree w/ the call/call river line.

For what its worth, she made the perfect raise to commit you to your stack if you're on a fairly weak hand - kudos to her.

Too bad she ran into a hand - unless she flopped a set, which is why her all-out aggression early would/will pay-off big time here.

[locutus2002]

Wow,
Villain's raise sends shivers down my spine. Hero is getting > 3:1 to call the turn raise. Villain can easily put hero on AK because of the PF raise, and the strong lead on the flop and the weak lead on the turn. Hero probably doesnt bet so strong on the flop with AA or KK. Villain doesn't need to make a probe bet as she should have a good idea about hero's hand, and shouldn't expect to be able to move him off of top 2 pr, in such a non-threatening board.

I doubt she's putting a move on because the turn raise is too easy to call. I think she has the set but might have ak. If villain had a8 or a6 she wouldn't need to pop so much on the turn to find out where she was at, and might even c/r the flop.

With 71XBB in the ME and having played very tight predictable poker, I would do the first unpredictable thing and fold.

[Philuva]

Well consensus seems to be call turn check raise and call any river bet. That is the line I chose, but I am still not convinved it is correct.

Folding was not really an option for me against this opponent. So my two choices were call/call or push on the turn.

Here are my thoughts on the hand. I think preflop and flop are standard. As I mentioned in another post, against a lot of players I would check behind on the turn and call/bet river. Most solid players are folding a weak A to a turn bet or are trapping me with 88 or 66. But against this opponent I like putting some money in the pot. I like my 1,500 turn bet, because it looks a little weak and gives her an opportunity to make a play at me. Once she check raises 2,500 more the pot is 8,450 and I have 7,100 left. IF I call I will have 4,600 left and the pot will be 10,950. I felt like I had enough chips left that I wasn't "pot comitted" in her eyes and she could still bluff me off the pot on the river. I am only taking a large risk if she has an open ended straight draw which is a possibilty with this opponent. I eventually decided that the probabilty that she was drawing very thin or even dead was significant and that I had enough chips after my turn call to be bluffed on the river made calling the turn and any river bet the best decision. If I have less chips I have an easy push on the turn.

Also, I was not sure if she was capable of folding a hand like AQ or AJ if I pushed the turn but I think I definitely get her stack be calling the turn and river.

The river was a 7. She bet 2,000 on the river (which I really wasn't expecting - I thought she would either check or put me all-in on the river) and I called. She of course turns over 77 and I almost throw up.

Most people I talked with thought calling the turn and river given the opponent read was the best line, but a couple thought after my turn call, she might shut down on the river given that board and even if she is only drawing to 2 outs, she is basically free rolling on her turn bluff check raise so the best option was to push the turn. I am still not convinced either way.


As a follow-up hand, the VERY next hand after losing this pot, a tighties raises utg to 300. I pick up KK and make a "steam" raise to 1,000. The button calls and utg folds. The flop is QT6 and I push my last 1,600. The button calls with TT and I am out with no help on turn or river. (It was a fun 3 hours for me in the WSoP). Nevermind the results, does anyone think I should check this flop with the intention of calling? I didn't want to give AK a free draw to 7 outs so that is why I decided to push the flop. Plus, it obviously looks like I am steaming from the prior hand so he might call with a lot of hands I am crushing on this flop?

[Philuva]

No one has any thoughts on "freeroll" bluffing situations? Basically where your opponent tries to win the pot there and if they don't will shut down and only continue if they hit their card on the river. I thought this was an interesting topic that would generate some discussion.

[MLG]

It is interesting. The problem is I don't think its applicable to this opponent because she will almost always fire again on the river it seems. Also, keep in mind that calling might also let her improve to a second best hand if she has a hand like middle pair on the flop which turned into 3rd pair. She might shutdown if she doesnt improve, but she will pay off if you let her catch-up a little.

[locutus2002]

I'm still stunned by the hand.

I think it shows incredibly poor judgement on villain's part to proceed with bluffing deep into her stack when it was apparant that hero was not going to fold.

Her value bet on the river showed that she totally misread the situation, as she should have moved in with anything.

I gave her too much credit, I expected her to have fairly acute skills to make a play like this.

She paid for each of her cards, I don't understand the "freeroll" question.

[Philuva]

[ QUOTE ]
She paid for each of her cards, I don't understand the "freeroll" question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, that once I call her turn check raise she is done with her hand unless she hits her 7 because it is obvious that I am now calling any river bet. So even though she only has a 2 outer, I am letting her freeroll by not pushing on the turn. Again, I am not sure if that situation applies here, as I do think I had enough chips leftover for her to continue bluffing on the river, but I wanted to see if others agree.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt she's putting a move on because the turn raise is too easy to call. I think she has the set but might have ak. If villain had a8 or a6 she wouldn't need to pop so much on the turn to find out where she was at, and might even c/r the flop.

With 71XBB in the ME and having played very tight predictable poker, I would do the first unpredictable thing and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

and then

[ QUOTE ]
I think it shows incredibly poor judgement on villain's part to proceed with bluffing deep into her stack when it was apparant that hero was not going to fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

In one post you say that you would fold based on villain's actions. In another you say that she's bluffing when it was apparent that hero was not going to fold. Which is it? You can't have it both ways. Either the small bet was a good bluff because it meant that she did have a big hand or it really was too small and you really would call it.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

Basically, that once I call her turn check raise she is done with her hand unless she hits her 7 because it is obvious that I am now calling any river bet. So even though she only has a 2 outer, I am letting her freeroll by not pushing on the turn. Again, I am not sure if that situation applies here, as I do think I had enough chips leftover for her to continue bluffing on the river, but I wanted to see if others agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I think this player probably plays 88 the same way, making calling the turn safer and you don't lose your stack the times you are behind. It's worth letting her freeroll a 2 outer.