Calling a river overbet?

MrG · #1 08-14-2005, 01:21 PM

My player reading skills are terrible but my read on the villian is that he is, at worst, a competent player. While I appreciated comments on all streets, I am mainly wondering how you guys would read this river overbet. It just didn't add up to me, I thought it just didn't fit.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$25) (9 handed) link

CO ($21.20)
Button ($24.90)
Hero ($27.20)
BB ($46.48)
UTG ($13.30)
UTG+1 ($7.60)
MP1 ($29.10)
MP2 ($28.75)
MP3 ($6.00)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.65, BB calls $0.50, 1 folds.

Flop: ($1.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.00, BB calls $1.00.

Turn: ($3.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $2.00, BB calls $2.00.

River: ($7.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $15.00, Hero calls $15.00.

Final Pot: $37.75.

AllIn3High · #2 08-14-2005, 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My player reading skills are terrible but my read on the villian is that he is, at worst, a competent player. While I appreciated comments on all streets, I am mainly wondering how you guys would read this river overbet. It just didn't add up to me, I thought it just didn't fit.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$25) (9 handed) link

CO ($21.20)
Button ($24.90)
Hero ($27.20)
BB ($46.48)
UTG ($13.30)
UTG+1 ($7.60)
MP1 ($29.10)
MP2 ($28.75)
MP3 ($6.00)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.65, BB calls $0.50, 1 folds.

Flop: ($1.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.00, BB calls $1.00.

Turn: ($3.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $2.00, BB calls $2.00.

River: ($7.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $15.00, Hero calls $15.00.

Final Pot: $37.75.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise more pre-flop. And why didn't you bet the river? It looks like he has either has a weak made hand or was sandbagging the flush / straight on the turn. Bet the river and fold to a raise.

As played I'm folding to his overbet unless yuo've seen him do it with air. If he was bluffing why the huge overbet, that makes no sense at all.

#3 08-14-2005, 01:31 PM

I would raise more preflop.
Also, I would pot the flop. After villians river bet, I think the main thing you should be worried about is the flush.
Villian's line looks strange, and I would probably fold here, but I dont think the call is terrible.

#4 08-14-2005, 01:39 PM

As others have said, your bets a little too small

Looks like a flush to me, hoping you have the straight

MrG · #5 08-14-2005, 01:40 PM

Both responses so far suggest I should have raised more preflop. I always raise 3xBB when I raise. Why should I bet more preflop in the particular case? Thanks

#6 08-14-2005, 01:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Both responses so far suggest I should have raised more preflop. I always raise 3xBB when I raise. Why should I bet more preflop in the particular case? Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you are in the small blind meaning you will be out of position for the rest of the hand

#7 08-14-2005, 01:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Both responses so far suggest I should have raised more preflop. I always raise 3xBB when I raise. Why should I bet more preflop in the particular case? Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you are in the small blind meaning you will be out of position for the rest of the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, there's one limper so you should add a bb for the limper. If you're on the button with aces and everyone limps, you don't still make it 3bb, do you?

I don't hate the call on the river, because you've played the hand so weak. He could easily think he can get you off the hand with a scary board. but I'd fold. There's too many things you can't beat. Really the only thing you can beat here, it seems to me, is a total bluff. I think you just have to give him credit for making a gutsy play and move on. But playing the hand stronger preflop and on the flop might have saved you from this situtation to begin with.

MrG · #8 08-14-2005, 01:51 PM

Being more aggressive preflop when oop makes a ton of sense. Thanks I see alot of great advice on this forum but sometimes I need the reasons behind the decisions. When OOP should I continue with the increased aggresion on the other streets as well ?

stu-unger · #9 08-14-2005, 01:52 PM

if u like to raise 3bb then u should be raising 3bb+1bb per limper+1bb for position. u should pot this flop and then make your decisions from there as they will be much more simple. fold to the river overbet. people don't make 2xpot overbets with air enough for this to be profitable.

PS:3xbb raise=.75

MrG · #10 08-14-2005, 01:54 PM

I don't know why betting 2/3 the pot on the flop and turn is weak play. Does a pot-sized bet make calls less of a mistake for people chasing? I realize these questions may seem elementary but please bear with me. Thanks.