Too aggressively played? Live 15/30

onegymrat · #1 10-02-2005, 04:11 PM

Both 8-handed, game is not so good.

Hand 1: Second orbit of session for me. UTG (aggessive player) raises. Folded to me in CO with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], I 3-bet. Folded to UTG who 4-bets. I call. Headsup.

FLOP: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG bets, I call.

TURN: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG bets, I raise...

Hand 2: Two limpers to SB (decent player) who raises. I have A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in BB and 3-bets. All call. Four to the flop.

FLOP: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB checks, I bet. One limper and SB calls. Three to the turn.

TURN: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB checks, I bet. Limper folds. SB check-raises, I 3-bet...

W. Deranged · #2 10-02-2005, 05:29 PM

I play these both the same, with the possible exception of three-betting pre-flop in the first hand. Post-flop lines seems pretty straightforward in both cases. The turn three-bet in hand two I think is certainly the way to go given you have a hand that is very likely to be good and have like 13 outs to basically unbeatable hands.

MoDOH · #3 10-02-2005, 05:38 PM

Hand 1: If you fold to a 3-bet then fine. If called how is your river plan?

Hand 2: standard...

W. Deranged · #4 10-02-2005, 05:42 PM

I think raising the turn and folding to three bet in hand 1 is probably better than calling down. My main thought is the value in getting our opponent to fold a mediocre diamond (something like T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) probably outweighs the few negatives to a raise there (possibly getting raised off the best hand/forgoing some like outs/encouraging an inferior hand to fold the turn which may have made a thin value bet on the river, etc...). It is certainly read dependent, though. If our villain might three-bet with a combo hand or something like that I think calling down definitely becomes better.

dblgutshot · #5 10-02-2005, 06:15 PM

Is the 3-bet in the first hand standard??

climber · #6 10-02-2005, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is the 3-bet in the first hand standard??

[/ QUOTE ]
depends a lot on what he means by his read of "agressive player"

Emperor · #7 10-02-2005, 09:28 PM

HAnd 2: I don't understand why 3betting the turn is better than just calling and getting another bet on the river. You aren't afraid of giving a free card here. If he has a set then you are making your odds worse by raising.

What hand could he have that we are scared of him drawing to? I can't think of any, so why wouldn't we just call and get an extra bet in on the river?

#8 10-02-2005, 09:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is the 3-bet in the first hand standard??

[/ QUOTE ]
depends a lot on what he means by his read of "agressive player"

[/ QUOTE ]
This statement is correct. If the villain was a tight raiser, this would be a standard fold. If the opponent is a loose rasier, a 3 bet is better than calling in my opinion if the opponent is capable of folding AQ,AK,AJ,AT unimproved somewhere in the hand.

GoodOL · #9 10-02-2005, 10:25 PM

Hand 1. Fold preflop. If raiser is weak, loose, OK, three bet...but you just said he's aggressive.

Hand 2. Call turn raise. By three betting, you are likely to either get a fold by a dead hand (that might bet river) or capped by a stronger hand (you said the guy was decent and he is CR'ing a big blind three bettor with THAT board?). 13 outs is alot...but it is still a dog.

onegymrat · #10 10-02-2005, 10:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is the 3-bet in the first hand standard??

[/ QUOTE ]
depends a lot on what he means by his read of "agressive player"

[/ QUOTE ]
This statement is correct. If the villain was a tight raiser, this would be a standard fold. If the opponent is a loose rasier, a 3 bet is better than calling in my opinion if the opponent is capable of folding AQ,AK,AJ,AT unimproved somewhere in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]Information was not clear. He had been raising often in my two orbits of play, where most of them did not reach a showdown. Aggressive? Yes. Loose-Aggressive? Still not sure. I was bound to find out in this hand.

Reraising preflop or folding was a very close decision. I could have folded the flop also, but chose to make a move on the turn. It just so happens my card came out.