Online poker’s days are numbered ?

[flafishy]

The only real way this could work would be for the program to do on-the-fly odds calculations and advise what to do based on the mathematics. There's nothing else a software program would be able to calculate with any accuracy.

There are a few of us that can actually do this in our heads -- without a calculator, even.

I actually cheated at chess online a few times. I suck at chess but I set up my PDA so that I could enter moves and easily beat some very high ranking online chess players. So I could see how a very well designed computer program could at least suggest +EV desicions when u have a mathematically complex situation especially at limit poker. If I had such a program I would use it in select situations where its tough to get the math right while 4 tabling. Now, such a program would not improve a good TAGs game by much but it could make a donk in to a TAG. I would always vary my game depending on the surcumstances but I can see a very well designed program like this to be helpfull to most players and -EV to all.

[HRFats]

I think Texas Calculate em does exactly this. But it's a violation of Party's T&C's to use it.

[SavageMiser]

How much time does Party give you to make a decision? 20 seconds? So you'd have that much time minus, say, 2 seconds to enter:
Your cards
The board (assuming you don't need this PF)
Your position
Number of opponents
Position of opponents
Chip stacks of opponents
The preflop action
Action up to your turn

That's the minimum, right? This doesn't include possible reads of opponents or the current texture of the table. Nor does it include details like possible blind steals, etc.

Obviously, you'll get quicker -- and more inaccurate -- "advice" with fewer variables.

Somehow I'm not afraid of someone trying to do this.

We are no where near the point in technology that a computer can play poker like a good player. Texas Calculatem is an example of a program that you mention and it really isn't that great. I must admit I used this when I first started playing online and it hurt my game, rather than helped.

It was great for helping with starting hands, but not as good as the pre-flop charts that are available on this site that are based on Sklansky's book. The post flop play of these programs is even worse. The only thing it can do for you is calculate where you are pot-odds wise and make a recommendation based on that. It has no idea how to react to things like overpairs, loose fish-type play (ie some idiot who cold-called with 9-4 and hit two pair), etc... Unlike chess, which is logical and contains no deceit, poker cannot be easily played by machines.

Also, you forget the one great fault in all of this. You are assuming that the new players to the game are going to know about and use said software. I am someone who did a fair amount of research before I started playing online, to find a decent site, etc... and never came across stuff like Poker Tracker during my research. The search results brought up poker indicator, poker office and other such software related to poker and that is when I started to look into these types of programs.

Another fault with this theory is this. If there ever were a program that could accurately capture the complexity of a good poker player, and if everyone started using it, wouldn't it negate the effects of the program? I mean, everyone would be getting the same advice so it would again be left up to humans to decide when the program was right, wrong or needed to be modified [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

PS - Texas Calculatem is just one example. Poker indicator is another similar, as is Poker Spy. Poker Office is really the best for this (to bad the rest of the program isn't as good as PT). Poker Office will tell you how many outs total, your pot odds, what outs are "playable". Then you can make your own choice. Since programs that advise must use outs/odds to figure this you can duplicate it by looking at the info already calculated for you.

[ipp147]

[ QUOTE ]
Instead, I'm imagining some software that "helps" you to make a better decision. You tell it what is happening during the game, and it recommends what to do when the action gets to you.

One issue would be speed : you'd have a lot of information to type in. But since this is a possible issue for the future, let's assume you can use voice recognition.

Poker sites couldn't detect you using this kind of "advisor" software, if you ran it on your old PC that's not online. Perhaps they could detect its intelligence at work, indirectly, via playing style detection (but see other posts above).

I guess I'm assuming at least 2 things :

1) that the advisor software will be good enough to win money for people, at least at low limits

2) that people will want to use it in large numbers

If both of these held, I wonder if the online poker growth would end ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be worried about this. You are talking about a very basic advisor. When I say a very basic advisor you are talking about Lee Jones WLLHE edition 1. This could beat probably upto 1/2 at a comfortable rate. But you could only 1 table due to speed issues.

Do you think people are going to sit at a pc talking information into a headset for $6 p/h

Bots are a much bigger threat than an "advisor"

[Girchuck]

Somebody suggested using webcams to solve this.
Imagine a webcam directed on the screen of your PC. The feed of this webcam goes to isolated computer which screenscrapes all the relevant information and makes an expert decision. You then implement the decision by voice control (or the webcam could be set up so that you do not interfere, or the second computer controls the first via the voice control, and we have a talking bot which is completely undetectable by the site)

[lambchop_ft]

[ QUOTE ]
How much time does Party give you to make a decision? 20 seconds? So you'd have that much time minus, say, 2 seconds to enter:
Your cards
The board (assuming you don't need this PF)
Your position
Number of opponents
Position of opponents
Chip stacks of opponents
The preflop action
Action up to your turn


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking if you're doing this, you use the advisor program all the time. So you give the program updates constantly including during everyone else's turn.

[lambchop_ft]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, you forget the one great fault in all of this. You are assuming that the new players to the game are going to know about and use said software.


[/ QUOTE ]

The other possibility is : people get *too* aware of the potential !

A few magazine articles / TV pieces about "online cheats" would do damage if people believed it could be done.

Perhaps analogous to collusion : deters a lot of people from playing online when it probably shouldn't.

[lambchop_ft]

[ QUOTE ]

Do you think people are going to sit at a pc talking information into a headset for $6 p/h


[/ QUOTE ]

Let's not forget there are lots of places where $6 an hour is a very good living.

If it could be done and money could be made, I don't imagine a shortage of takers.