5/10 - TT on rag flop

[hansarnic]

6-handed 5/10NL but with two sitting out. Game is pretty wild.

I limp UTG with TT, Button who is a decent player, strong aggressive, tough to read makes it 50. I call. He has 1700 I have 2k.

Flop is 422. I check, he bets 60 and I raise another 140.

He makes it about 600.

He may well believe I have an overpair, but I think I’ve marked myself as medium so he can certainly be bluffing me here.

I curse myself and fold.

Lots of (probably better) ways to play this PF and on the flop, I know. Comments?

[AZK]

At times I find myself leading into players like the one you described, hoping to catch them off balance. It's cheaper than a c/r when he comes over the top, if he comes over the top I fold, he folds, I make a mental note of trying to push him out of pots more often. He's doing the same, so after a night of going back and forth and him knowing you will fold to his raises, you can bust him pretty good when do actually hit the flop....

[schwza]

you're limping TT 4-handed? that's a definite raising hand. if you're only raising bigger hands than that you're giving up way too much info. and stealing the blinds becomes very important in 4-handed.

post-flop is tough - pretty obviously a question of does he have an overpair, and if so, is it bigger than yours. if he's aggressive pre- and post-, there's a chance that he thinks his 88 here is good and that you're c/r'ing with nothing. i think your line post-flop is fine though - if you play on i think there's too good a chance you're gonna get shown KK or something.

[riverboatking]

does he fire multiple barrels on bluffs or will a flop call slow him down?
depending on his tendencies i would lean towards either leading, or smooth-calling his flop bet.

i know many players hate the idea of smooth calling here and giving free cards, but in this case it will cost you 60 to gain some valuable info rather then the 140 you put in only to fold.

in situations like this position is so vital, and since you don't have it its important to adjust.
when i have position on a reasonably solid/tight player i'll often times either smooth call the C/R and try and take the pot away on the turn (ie: what do you do when he smooth calls your C/R and a rag hits the turn?), or come back over the top and really put them to the test.

the way to counter that positional disadvantage is to sometimes smooth call the flop and then lead the turn, believe me it really throws off aggressive players.
and while you will occasionally allow the overcard to get there vs. this type of player who isn't willing to just surrender to your C/R you should definately consider adding the smooth call to your repoitoire.

think of it this way, if you're on the button shorthanded with AA/KK/QQ and you get in the situation you described, would you necessarily re-raise the C/R?

wouldn't it be much more valuable to simply smooth call and try and make more money on the turn with your premimum hand in position?

just some thoughts... it doesn't always work, and i'm sure i'm going to get blasted by the "need to find out where you're at on the flop" school. i just think some times you need to mix it up vs. the aggro's especally when you're out of position.

[zepmetal]

I think thats a really good post, river. I odnt like the check raise on the flop because in an aggressive 4 handed game, check raises on these seemingly innocent flops often look like steal attempts and therefor wont have the desired effect. And I agree that AA/KK/QQ will likely smooth call the CR and youre in a tight spot on the turn. Leading out, AA/KK/QQ may smooth call again, but when you bet strong on the turn and they play back, you can make an easier decision. Not to mention that CRing the flop risks giving free cards to a hand like QJs. A smart playing isnt going to try to steal the pot every time and will wait to pick up a pair or a good draw.