Turn Raise

QTip · #1 10-20-2005, 10:45 PM

W.D. was talking about turn raises yesterday, so I wanted to start looking for hands to post. This was one I thought might be decent to discuss.

Players behind me are tight.

Villain is quite loose....somewhere in the 40s. He's semi-aggressive. That's all I've really noticed so far.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises

What do you think?

JacksonTens · #2 10-20-2005, 11:08 PM

I think I'ts a standard semibluff against one player. Although I agree that SBing is not discussed nearly enough on this forum. I like it, I'd do the same.

JT [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Grifter · #3 10-20-2005, 11:14 PM

This seems like a good time to attempt the semi-bluff. The interesting thing to me is what to do if you are called and you miss? Do you fire again if checked to? Do you call a donkbet on the river?

#4 10-20-2005, 11:28 PM

Edited, I'm dumb. Made some comments related to the hand if players were behind you (postflop) cause I apparently can't read. HU, looks good.

QTip · #5 10-20-2005, 11:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This seems like a good time to attempt the semi-bluff. The interesting thing to me is what to do if you are called and you miss? Do you fire again if checked to? Do you call a donkbet on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I posted the hand. I'm not trying to show any concepts I understand here...I have some mixed thoughts with some concepts with these plays.

The Ace does have some showdown value. So, this could be looked at as a free showdown play imo. Then there's the semi-bluff angle as well.

Some thoughts as I thought about the hand afterwards.

1. I play a big hand the same way. Villain probably wouldn't notice or care though.

2. I think villain is more likely to have a pair here than a draw. With the rag that fell on the turn, I think the chances of him folding an 8, 9 or some small pp are slim to none.

3. I open myself up for a 3 bet, which would suck something terrible.

4. The only out that I have that would slow him down is an ace. I can probably make 3 bbs if I just wait and will only lose 1 if I just call and can fold to a river bet.

5. Now, I'm face with a series of interesting decisions on the river. Do I bet any card? Do I call a donk? Etc.

Honestly, I'm thinking the turn raise may not be a good thing at all.

Shillx · #6 10-20-2005, 11:33 PM

You play AA this way right? If so I like making this play as a semibluff from time to time. Usually call and sometimes raise and I like it a lot dude.

Brad

QTip · #7 10-20-2005, 11:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Usually call and sometimes raise

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's probably the key right there. I'm probably more like raise and sometimes misclick.

Piiop · #8 10-21-2005, 12:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Some thoughts as I thought about the hand afterwards.

1. I play a big hand the same way. Villain probably wouldn't notice or care though.

2. I think villain is more likely to have a pair here than a draw. With the rag that fell on the turn, I think the chances of him folding an 8, 9 or some small pp are slim to none.

3. I open myself up for a 3 bet, which would suck something terrible.

4. The only out that I have that would slow him down is an ace. I can probably make 3 bbs if I just wait and will only lose 1 if I just call and can fold to a river bet.

5. Now, I'm face with a series of interesting decisions on the river. Do I bet any card? Do I call a donk? Etc.

Honestly, I'm thinking the turn raise may not be a good thing at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your reasons here and come to the same conclusion that raising the turn isn't that good. The key point here is 1 combined with 2. It's very unlikely that he'll every fold here. If it was the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] then I might like it more because he may be able to fold a pair. Or, if the villain was able to c/r the flop as bluff/semi-bluff sometimes as well as be able to lay down on the turn, then I would like it more. In this case, I don't like it.

As it went, I don't think I'd bet the river without improvement. I know that's probably the only way you're going to win the pot, but I think he has a better hand that he calls with too often to make a river bet +EV.

QTip · #9 10-21-2005, 09:10 AM

Any other thoughts from the day crowd?

Solid_p · #10 10-21-2005, 09:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Any other thoughts from the day crowd?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a good spot for a semi-bluff raise, but maybe the wrong opponent. But he might be check raising a draw, so you're also raising for a free showdown here. Check the river if checked to.