something I've been doing lately.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
Why pay an extra SB to drive the BB out? He's either gonna fold something like 59 regardless.Also,a lot of BB's, especially when it becomes 3 and 4 handed, won't fold hands that dominate something like JT or QT, even if it's for 2 cold. Or at least the lagtags I play don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience, reraising from the sb certainly affects the likelihood of bb calling or folding.

[Jinx]

Sure, but do you really want BB folding a hand like 8Ts?

[MicroBob]

No.

But for 2 more bets it becomes more difficult for them to call with another JT or QTo or something.


And after a re-raise you don't have to have the best hand to win with a continuation bet or two..or when you are just betting a draw.


Flop is 984....you are happy to win the pot before getting to the river on your semi-bluff without having to hit your draw. And when you 3-bet it then you're opponent is less likely to stick around with KQ or something.

This is more difficult to do against 2 opponents of course. BB has 86 for example. On this flop you could well have wished you had 3-bet to get him out.


I don't know if my assumptions are completely correct here.

The general argument is that allowing the BB to see the flop with 5:1 odds means that he is very much correct to call with most (or all) of the hands he is calling with.

Giving him 7:2 to call means that he is more likely to be making a mistake by calling.
And you are increasing your chances of taking the pot with standard continuation betting.


I hear you that it becomes expensive though. I'm still struggling with a lot of this stuff.
But I don't think that trying to save 1 little bet pre-flop is going to be the answer to your (our) woes.

But I'm pretty much just regurgitating some of the stuff given previously by posters smarter than me. I don't have enough successful practice with these tactics from my own play.
I'm too often on the losing end of that whole bit about wishing I hadn't 3-bet in the first place.
But in my case I think the answer is to fold the borderline stuff...not cold-call with it...but again, this is because I've been so pre-programmed to say 'cold-calling = bad'

[Guruman]

I think the play here is entirely dependant on what the button will do when he misses entirely. If he's at all capable of taking free cards without you playing back at him, then just calling JTs and the like is probably ok.

If he feels he has to autobet with any two on every flop and every turn when he's the preflop aggressor, I just let this one go and wait to call him down with an Ace or a good King. Calling this person's raise is essentially calling the raise (1.4 sb) and his later streets (3sb).

If he gets timid when you re-raise, then you have to threebet this one to play it, and you can often take a free look at the turn when you miss.

Of course, Ed Miller suggested calling this if he can fold when you check/raise and lead the turn in the magazine this month.

Also, I don't think the blind structure has been factored in quite as much as it should be by some others so far.

With this structure, just calling and seeing a flop costs 7/12 of what it costs to attempt to push out the bb, risk a cap, and take a flop OOP with a hand that you can't showdown UI. With the resteal costing 171% of the cool-call, there must surely be some marginal (multiway) hands that aren't strong enough to raise, but arent weak enough to fold.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree folding against him is your best bet. You have to remember someone with these types of stats is most likely a good postflop player so you put yourself in a really tough spot.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Since when are preflop stats any indication of postflop play?

Edit: Yes, it's overstated.

[Stinkybeaver]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, the original question was much more of a general "is it ever right to coldcall from the SB" question.

I 3 bet with something like K7o, but for something with no SD value unless it improves, I don't see much point in 3 betting, especially since with how much back and forth raising there is during blind situations, people start peeling real liberally, and betting the flop and turn to make it fold it becomes expensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

To the first question I'm 3-betting or folding. I think you put yourself in a way harder postflop situation by calling.

Are we 3-betting K7o from SB..? I know I'm not K9s+ and K9sometimes and KT+. rest is fold IMO.

FWIW, I think this is a very borderline situation, one that could go either way depending on how much you pwn this guy.

Remember: J9o is about the worst J anyone around here will steal with on the button, and that's when you have position.

[Jinx]

When it becomes 4 handed I will raise a lot of hands worse than 9Jo from the button. Ditching K7o in the SB 4 handed just because button raised seems very wrong to me. Course I ditch it sometimes depending on the player, but against a lot of lagtags I 3 bet it.

Just because calling with JTo instead of 3 betting makes postflop "harder" doesn't mean it's not worse.