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Old 12-12-2005, 03:08 AM
ggbman ggbman is offline
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Default Thoughts on dropping out of school...

One issue that comes up a lot in these forums is young kids who are making large sums of money losing motivation and wanting to drop out of school. Generally people give responses like, "don't drop out of school, it's a bad idea."

It's something i have thought tons about, because the issue is very relevant to me, so i thought i would record my thoughts here, and hopefully the will help some people. First of all, i am a freshman at Bentley College. I have already made up my mind that i am going to at least finish my undergaduate degree, and attempt to maintain decent grades in school. In my opinion, if you are smart enough to be a top poker player, you are capable of balancing it with other parts of your life. The time when you play is flexible, and you can work around other obstacles.

Socially, i think it's hard to justify missing the college experience, it's a shitload of fun, and i know that I personally would have regrets for the rest of my life if i missed this experience. Also, having a financial alternative to poker is an excellent idea, and a good piece of mind.

I think some older people have trouble understanding the quandry some young players find themselves in. It's very difficult to be motivated to go to school when you make significantly more playing poker than you could expect to in the next 2 decades of your professional career. This kind of $$$ would skew anyone's perspective, let alone a kid, because it all just happens so fast. It is hard to give you're best effort to school, and that trivializes the eduational experience.

Personally, one of my goals next semester is to find a slightly better balance between poker and school. I think anyone who wants to do this can, and i kno its important to me. But not everyone is like, some people have different priorities.

Let me state unequivically that giving universal advice on this matter is ridiculous, each situation is different. If you are someone who forks over 35-40k a year for an education, doesn't attend class, and is in danger of failing out of school, then attending doesn't make much sense. If you literally cannot bring yourself to get to class, by all means drop out. You will save either you or your parents some serious $$$, and you will have time to make more money through poker as well as just relax because you have less responsibilities. I don't neccesarily think this is best, however i know there are some people who find themselves in circumstances similar to the aforementioned ones. In order for college to be a worthwhile expiernce, you have to at least want to get something out it.

I feel this was an important thing to write about because it is prevalent nowadays. I also feel i can relate well to some of these people because i am in the same boat. Dropping out of school would make me a lot of $$$. But i think i can make a lot anyway, and still have the college experieces that i want. If you are close to getting your degree, just grit your teeth and finish it out. If you still have a long way to go, i think you should try. But don't do it becaue a bunch of people on the internet had a good time in college and are telling you to, it's much different when you have a vialble alternative to finishing your education. Anything you want to do sucessfully in life will have to be done for the right reasons. Consider all the relevant factors and do what's best for you. Don't just think about $$$ though, we all know there is more to life than that.

Peace,

Gabe
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:21 AM
scott8 scott8 is offline
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Default Re: Thoughts on dropping out of school...

I feel the experiences I had in college are priceless.
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:49 AM
JEM7VSBL JEM7VSBL is offline
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Default Re: Thoughts on dropping out of school...

[ QUOTE ]
One issue that comes up a lot in these forums is young kids who are making large sums of money losing motivation and wanting to drop out of school. Generally people give responses like, "don't drop out of school, it's a bad idea."

[/ QUOTE ]

It IS a bad idea. For most people.

[ QUOTE ]

It's very difficult to be motivated to go to school when you make significantly more playing poker than you could expect to in the next 2 decades of your professional career. This kind of $$$ would skew anyone's perspective, let alone a kid, because it all just happens so fast. It is hard to give you're best effort to school, and that trivializes the eduational experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say a strong majority of people will make a whole lot more working at a job than they ever will make playing poker. This is similar to new college grads that enter the workplace and all of a sudden have more money than they know what to do with. Any college student with an inkling of an idea of their future will know that any money made playing poker (there are exceptions) is chump change compared to a professional career.

[ QUOTE ]

Let me state unequivically that giving universal advice on this matter is ridiculous, each situation is different. If you are someone who forks over 35-40k a year for an education, doesn't attend class, and is in danger of failing out of school, then attending doesn't make much sense. If you literally cannot bring yourself to get to class, by all means drop out. You will save either you or your parents some serious $$$, and you will have time to make more money through poker as well as just relax because you have less responsibilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you devote your college career to being a failure, not much is going to help you from being a failure outside of college. Are you going to live with your parents for the rest of your life playing online poker and assuming no responsibilities of an adult? Not my kind of life.

[ QUOTE ]
I feel this was an important thing to write about because it is prevalent nowadays.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're very right. Kids all over the country get delusions of grandeur, seeing all the young college guys on TV, and they think they have what it takes to drop out and play poker for a living. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it and everyone would win. But wait, how can that be, aren't most players losers in the long run? After they realize they aren't as good as they think they are, what do they have left?

[ QUOTE ]
I also feel i can relate well to some of these people because i am in the same boat. Dropping out of school would make me a lot of $$$.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make money from dropping out of school? If your parents pay for your education, are they just going to hand it over to you, as if it was yours to decide what to do with next? If you are working and paying for school, what's next? You wouldn't have the actual money, I'm guessing.

In regard to your thoughts on college experience, I would agree, they are priceless. People can still attend college and play poker but still miss out on the college experience. I was a victim of it for a semester myself, where I'd stay in my room playing poker all day and all night, taking breaks to eat and go to class. I hardly saw my friends or went out. I never made that same mistake again and just play sparingly now. I'm absolutely certain that lots of online players fall into this category, so it's not just the dropouts that miss the college experience, but those who play obsessively.
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:50 AM
DonButtons DonButtons is offline
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Default Re: Thoughts on dropping out of school...

nice post, im in your same shoes

in the summer I will prob. regret going to soph. year at tulane university just like I did this previous summer after freshman year...school sucks...
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:52 AM
a rebours a rebours is offline
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Default Re: Thoughts on dropping out of school...

By all means get your degree if you must.

In my personal experience, it's been useless (at least so far). I graduated two years ago (and probably only did because I did not learn to play poker till after I graduated [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). Had overall GPA 3.98. What it really amounts to now is several years of hard work for nothing (except that yeah, my parents are pretty happy I did not drop out).

I don't know if it's a good idea to have a degree just in case, as an insurance of some sort. In fact, I believe I could get it 10 years later with the same success, when/if I decided I needed it.

As for fun, I am having as much fun playing poker for a living. Perfectly happy with this lifestyle.

Actually, in my case I don't really regret getting a degree that much, but only because I was really into doing research at the time. Thought that was what I want to do all my life (was mistaken, it turned out). I do regret not learning to play poker sooner though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Guess everybody is different, but in my mind the only good reason to go to college is if you really want to, and will enjoy working with your degree eventually much more than you enjoy playing poker now.
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:53 AM
DonButtons DonButtons is offline
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Default Re: Thoughts on dropping out of school...

Jem,

why do you think a online poker player will live with his parents? You can rent a nice apartment/house for like $1500-4500 a month depending on your taste, and easily fit in your budget when you make 200k (again depends, but even 80k-million is possible) a year
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  #7  
Old 12-12-2005, 04:02 AM
DonButtons DonButtons is offline
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Default Re: Thoughts on dropping out of school...

btw, why is it during mid-terms/finals this topic always comes into my head, and I edge towards dropping out...hmmm
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2005, 04:37 AM
ggbman ggbman is offline
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Default Re: Thoughts on dropping out of school...

Don't take offense to think, but i'm guessing from the tone of your post you were making less than 200k/year playing. Its much different when 3 years of running average will make you more money than you will go through in the next 15 years. Part of my point is that it's not fair for people who have had negative experiences to force their will on others. There are plently of people who make boatloads and don't let poker control their life.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2005, 06:35 AM
daveymck daveymck is offline
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Default Re: Thoughts on dropping out of school...

There is two things I would maybe add to this.

Firstly you have to think of the future not just the now those making good serious money from poker can they do it longer term and will poker be there for them to do it longer term. Yes there will be forms of poker whatever happens but in 5-10 years time will you be able to be a multi table full time pro in the same way you are now. Are you capable of adapting as the game changes over the years, judging by the panic stations on here when Party split form Empire a lot are not.

Secondly ggbman in the post above mentions earning 200k a year for a few years will set you up for 15 years, I am not so sure it would maybe if you stay at the levels of expenditure the average 18-24 YO has. As you get older and end up with a partner and house and maybe kids etc etc you will find your expenditure increases and increases comparable to your earn. The amount you earn tends to get reflected in the areas you look to live in, the cars you want, holidays you take, the lifestyle overall you look to enjoy. Having said that the amounts people are earning now at that young age are giving a good start in life.

Edit to add

I realise at this age most people dont know what they want to do or where they want to go, poker can seem an easy option, but it may be in 10 years you think back I wish I had stayed and finished my schooling, its better to keep as many future options open now than to have big regrets later on just cos of a bit of laziness and lack of motivation (which all of us tend to have whatever we do). Even going to school I would think would leave a good few hours to make a decent whack form poker at the peak times. BUt I also realise school isnt for everyone (I left at 16) you have to think deep inside what you want.
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2005, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: Thoughts on dropping out of school...

The last time I responded to a post like this I got flamed by a drunk dude. Can't pass up another chance at that can I? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

All of us have probably heard at some point how much more high school grads make than drop outs on average and how much more college grads make than highschool grads on average. These figures are accurate. It used to be having a highschool diploma was proof enough to land a job, and now it's really a college degree. The problem of course is that real jobs pretty much suck most of the time. So why would anyone work hard to earn a degree only to work hard at a lousy job for 20-40 years?

One answer is that you shouldn't. Honestly, college isn't for everyone and if you can make a living and be happy with your life doing it, why not play poker? That's it, no lecture.

The more mercenary among us might even think, why not encourage MORE people to play poker for a living, most of them will lose and that's better for us right? But for those players who choose to drop out of college and can't make a living, what do they do? If they get lousy low paying jobs, that's less money into our tax base in the U.S. Poor people tend to use more government services, and that costs the rest of us money. I'm personally of the opinion that government SHOULD be helping poor people out (or anyone in need of help) and I'm comfortable paying my taxes to do so (and I don't choose to stop there). But we've seen in New Orleans how government can fail the poor when it matters most. So I would argue that we can LOSE in the long run by encouraging people who offer us short term gains to make bad decisions.

But as adults, it's up to us to make those decisions good or bad and live with the results.

I personally don't see the harm in spending the time to finish a college degree while playing poker. It may take a bit longer to finish and maybe your grades will suffer but most employers don't care what your GPA is as long as you finish. You'll have that degree just in case thing don't work out right away.

And not to beat a dead horse, but if you're young, healthy, and not really responsible for anyone but yourself, live a little and enjoy yourself. You'll regret it if you don't.

But keep in mind that you won't always be young and healthy. You might decide you want to start a family, buy a home, start saving for retirement or your kid's college education [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. The biggest single benefit I can see from getting a degree and working at a job you may not love is that it makes getting all of these things easier. The young tough fearless kids may make excellent poker players but the old farts who aren't afraid to gamble either because they already have everything they want do ok too.
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