4 handed live hand against justin a - Page 3

gaming_mouse · #21 10-19-2005, 01:02 AM

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So 6:1, but we have outs, so we're not putting a full bet in. Thus, 6

34/46) assuming 12 outs.

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i'm retarded. i missed the our draw.

Justin A · #22 10-19-2005, 01:04 AM

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preflop i would 3bet. if you're going to play K6s from the SB, at least take control of the hand so that when he is stealing with garbage he can fold to your flop bet

flop i would fold, but i think a c/r is better than just a call. again fold equity on the turn is a big consideration here

turn i would c/r, but i don't think a bet is that bad

river i would bet or check fold

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Preflop is ok, i've been raising alot and it's a 2/3 blind structure.

fyodor · #23 10-19-2005, 05:31 AM

At every stage of this hand, given the size of the pot and the knowledge that justin could have raised preflop with any two cards, it is worth continuing.

Even so, you still have essentially nothing yourself and any card could pair him if he hasn't paired already.

I would prefer a flop cr to your donk stab on the turn to get rid of him before there is no getting rid of him.

That said, I think this whole hand is too dependant on how you see each other, and as such may have been played perfectly by both parties whether justin shows down 55 for the winner or T8 for a loser.

Justin A · #24 10-19-2005, 06:13 AM

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At every stage of this hand, given the size of the pot and the knowledge that justin could have raised preflop with any two cards, it is worth continuing.

Even so, you still have essentially nothing yourself and any card could pair him if he hasn't paired already.

I would prefer a flop cr to your donk stab on the turn to get rid of him before there is no getting rid of him.

That said, I think this whole hand is too dependant on how you see each other, and as such may have been played perfectly by both parties whether justin shows down 55 for the winner or T8 for a loser.

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I don't have any two cards here. I'm probably raising about 50% of my hands though with the BB being who it was.

Schneids · #25 10-19-2005, 06:21 AM

You can't win when Justin bets the river he's an uber-nit, he's not betting ten high or 6 high. I like the turn bet if you haven't been consistently checkraising on the flop.

Justin A · #26 10-19-2005, 08:19 AM

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You can't win when Justin bets the river he's an uber-nit, he's not betting ten high or 6 high. I like the turn bet if you haven't been consistently checkraising on the flop.

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Not the first time you've been wrong.

fyodor · #27 10-19-2005, 10:31 AM

Sorry. I knew it wasn't any two. Actually 50% was about my guess. Still, that's a lot of crap you could have there.

mike l. · #28 10-19-2005, 04:30 PM

wow justin you tricked schneids!

he had Td9d. when i check the river he is forced to bet with any hand i beat, but check with a lot of hands i dont beat. so i felt the check-call was the play on the river.

of course i had to play fairly randomly to get to that point. on the flop i knew a c/r was best but since he had been playing back a lot i decided to just call and see more cards come off. im definitely not dumping K high there and pairing my 6 could be good too.

the turn bet was in order of importance: a probing bet, a bet for value, and a semibluff. it's the most interesting part of the hand. when he doesnt raise the turn i find out if my 6 is a good out if he's A high or paired, and that my K high might be good. remember im calling a bet anyway so this bet doesnt hurt me. it's not like i have KTo, i have the flush draw. i put semibluff as last because he's rarely folding A high here, and never folding a pair.

clearly from an ftop perspective his play was to raise the turn here with his superdraw, but that means he has to fire the river too, and count on me not having top or middle pair, which the flat call flop, donk bet turn seems to indicate. so the random nature of my preflop and flop smooth calls ended up tricking him into misplaying the endgame.

oh it should be noted that all of this analysis is in hindsight, in the heat of battle in this hand i was barely thinking until the river came and i realised he was trapped into betting some hands that missed and checking some hands that beat me. the rest was just random spewage that looks now in analysis to be accidentally correct. to my credit i may have been playing good from my subconcious, if i could spell that right now..

fun hand and one of the few where i beat justin fair and square.

Surfbullet · #29 10-19-2005, 04:54 PM

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oh it should be noted that all of this analysis is in hindsight, in the heat of battle in this hand i was barely thinking until the river came and i realised he was trapped into betting some hands that missed and checking some hands that beat me. the rest was just random spewage that looks now in analysis to be accidentally correct. to my credit i may have been playing good from my subconcious, if i could spell that right now..

fun hand and one of the few where i beat justin fair and square.

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I'm glad you included this...it's nice to go back afterwards and be able to argue ideas that make a play good or bad, but so much of SH (esp2-4 handed) is instinct and how the flow of hands have been going. I'm glad i'm not the only one [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Nice hand.

FWIW I think the call on the river is a fold. I agree that he must bet worse hands when you check...there's a problem though, the only cards he can hold that you beat are another, worse, missed FD.

If we could reliably put him on more missed hands that might bluff i'd like it more - but he doesn't call the turn with QTesque hands, he's either got a showdownable hand(A-hi or pair) or a big draw (OESD+). The OESD got there, all that's left are worse flush draws, which I might discount slightly b/c they may semibluff-raise the turn.

Surf

Justin A · #30 10-19-2005, 06:57 PM

I'm still a bit unsure about this hand and who played it well. The reason is that I'm not sure I would have called the turn with a T9o or 98o type hand. What really made the turn bet work well for you, and why I probably would have folded those hands is that the last time you donk bet the turn I immdediately raised and you folded before I could put my chips out. I felt like you'd make your next donk bet with a legitimate hand, which is why I didn't raise the turn.

I'm still somewhat unsure about your river call because the only hands I have there that you beat are missed flush draws. I'm not sure if that's enough to call getting 7:1, but it's definitely close. Also it probably sways in your favor that I'm not betting the river with ace high hands, and given what I thought about your turn bet I'm probably only betting a pair of 7's and higher.