When the Board is Paired

mojobluesman · #1 12-15-2005, 07:23 PM

I'm having a tough time playing when the board is paired on the flop.

If it's a card out of the playing zone, I generally feel comfortable betting if I paired the 3rd card (any card) on the flop and have two pair with a decent kicker. I don't know if I'm having a bad run of luck in this situation or not, but I'm constantly either running into the set (raised on turn) or an overcard comes on either the Turn and River and beats my two pair.

I'm obviously doing something incorrectly because I'm leaking like crazy in that spot, but don't you have to try to protect a hand like that.

Here's one spot where I didn't have a kicker, but I had to bet the flop here didn't I?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Button calls, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds.

River: (10.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 bets, CO folds, Button raises, MP3 3-bets, Button caps, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

ajm36 · #2 12-15-2005, 07:30 PM

Post some of your hands for these specific situations. I would definitely like to see some of your plays. And yes, you must not fear the paired board.

#3 12-15-2005, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you have to try to protect a hand like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course. You said you are often beaten by an overcard that is paired on the turn or river. Are you trying to get in a raise on the flop? If you raise on the flop, you may induce these hands to fold. Plus, if you are reraised you can be pretty sure you are beaten and give up the hand if it doesn't improve on the turn.

#4 12-15-2005, 08:07 PM

A lot of times when I bet the bottom pair on the flop, I find myself getting raised by something like AJ or a pocket pair, or the flush draw, who doesn't believe me when I bet. Often, the person who hit trips will wait until the turn to go wild.

I guess that's why fastplaying can be so tricksy.

BBB

#5 12-15-2005, 08:41 PM

::grunch::

I check/fold the flop here. Pairing your 6 doesn't do anything, so you really only have 2 effective outs (maybe 3 if you include the gutshot backdoor straight draw) that will improve your hand. In fact, I wouldn't even count the two 7's as full outs, since another 7 falling gives you the smaller full house against someone with a 9.

Combine that with the chances that someone has a 9, or an overcard falls that pairs somebody's hand, and I don't see much reason to invest another bet here.

From the river action, I'd say MP3 had a 9 and the button took down the pot with KJ, right?

RustyCJ · #6 12-15-2005, 08:45 PM

grunching

I hate hands like this from the BB, you think you may have the best hand but it's awkward because you're out of position, it's difficult to protect your hand and if you try to c/r that often won't work either or by the time someone bets and there are a couple of callers, it just isn't worth it.

maybe it's wrong but i usually check/fold this. you'll be getting lots of callers at this level usually, overcards, many lone [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] will call, there are just a slew of hands that will call here, you're betting a pair of sixes into 4 players.

These types of hands usually seem to be more trouble than they're worth. I don't expect this situation to see victory often enough to make it worthwhile.

I might bet this flop and probably give it up on the turn depending on the # of callers and action.

refer to SSHE and how Miller classifies hands, this hand from the BB would seem to fall into the marginal to poor category. at least in my opinion.

please yell at me if i'm wrong, anyone!

Agthorr · #7 12-15-2005, 09:03 PM

Heads up, I'd bet out on the flop. If I was last to act and it was checked to me, I'd bet out.

However, first to act with a large field, I check-fold. You may have the best hand right now, but almost any card to come may hurt you. With 4 opponents, one of them is likely to hit their hand (even that's just making a pair of tens).

If it's checked to the Button and the Button bets, I might consider a raise to get it heads up.

#8 12-15-2005, 09:04 PM

I think you have to check/fold this one. Even if it's not too unlikely that you currently have the best hand, there are so many hands that can draw out on you. There are obvious straight and flush draws, and if someone already has a 9, you're drawing almost dead. Any ten or higher gives someone higher two pairs. The pot is small on the flop, and going further with this one can be very expensive since you have almost no outs if you're behind. If you had A7 with the ace of hearts things would have been different, but this hand should be mucked against 5 opponents.

#9 12-15-2005, 09:07 PM

I don't know you are doing with other hands, but I think that the example you posted shows that you may be overvaluing your hand. You hit bottom pr with no kicker on a paired and two flush board. You may have the best hand now, but you are very likely to get drawn out on. There's 24 overcards to your 7's that beat you when they may pair someone and an additional 5 hearts that put 3 hearts on the board. So essentially you've got a hand that needs to improve to win and you've got two outs to do it. I check fold the flop on a board like this without reads(and most of the time with reads).