getting into trouble with QJs

TStoneMBD · #1 04-07-2005, 03:26 PM

both players are unknowns, just sat down.

is the fact that he checked the turn a clear indication that he has a spade draw and i should fold?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, 4 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.66 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.33 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (8.33 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.33 BB

stoxtrader · #2 04-07-2005, 03:29 PM

I would debate folding this when it is two back to me pre-flop.

DeezNutz3 · #3 04-07-2005, 03:44 PM

agreed

DcifrThs · #4 04-07-2005, 04:51 PM

fold preflop for 2.

bet turn. bet river.
-Barron

bobbyi · #5 04-07-2005, 04:51 PM

There is no way I'm calling those two extra bets preflop.

TStoneMBD · #6 04-07-2005, 04:53 PM

ok yah i feel foolish calling the 2 bets back to me, that was bad.

im still interested in my postflop line though. i was planning on checkraising the turn obv.

DcifrThs · #7 04-07-2005, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ok yah i feel foolish calling the 2 bets back to me, that was bad.

im still interested in my postflop line though. i was planning on checkraising the turn obv.

[/ QUOTE ]

you can't risk it at that point.

once you both check, you must bet the river.

-Barron

elindauer · #8 04-07-2005, 06:51 PM

Definitely fold preflop for 2 cold, but you know that.

Bet the river. Your opponent will call with a lot more hands than he will bet, and he's not terribly likely to be bluffing when he bets. It's also unlikely you'll be bluff raised given the action, as he simply isn't likely to hold a very weak hand, and he's not likely to bluff raise with, say Ah Ad.

Good luck.
Eric

Senor Choppy · #9 04-08-2005, 05:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop for 2.

bet turn. bet river.
-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Mizzles · #10 04-08-2005, 06:28 AM

Tstone

My line would have been to bet the turn and check/call the river. I rarely go for the CR these days except for in very select situations. But I'm thinking the best line is probably bet turn and bet the river.

However, I disagree with the others on the river bet once he checks the turn.

What hand could he possibly call you with (that he couldn't bet with on the turn) that doesn't beat you?

1) AA, KK, KQs, AQ, QQ, JJ, possibly AJ he bets the turn with (or should have bet with)
2) 88, 99, 10s, AK without a spade is a pretty easy fold on the river
3) His check on the turn screams spade draw

Therefore if he calls, you're beat, so what's the point of betting here? And worse what if he bluff raises (although I agree extremely unlikely). Once he checks the turn I believe your best line is to check/call the river.

Also question for the others -- betting the river on a board with 4 of a suit without that suit is something I never do -- is this a leak? However I can see here how betting the river (and folding to a raise) is a strong play but only if he had bet the turn as well--