Re: Poker prophecy and its ilk

[citanul]

i wouldn't think that's a very bright line of thinking.

publicly owned companies don't go "shove it up your ass" at the public users of their products, and their laws, all that often.

citanul

[hobbes9324]

Just learned something - thanks.....I didn't know, probably because I never thought about it, that they were a public company.

[citanul]

i'm pretty sure they ipoed on the london stock exchange whilst i was on hiatus, but if not, it is their intentions to do so soon.

citanul

[duke44]

[ QUOTE ]
$20 to give me an edge, booyah! boom goes the dynamite. those are the people that prophecy snookers into sending them $20 for a service that is nothing but wildly random numbers thrown on a screen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it is 39.99 now and we have over 7,000 customers that feel the program helps them playing Poker. Our program is designed to help out those players that are not "pro's" and would like a basic read on the skills of the player next to them. I'm sure we could go back and forth on this for several posts, but I can assure you Poker Prophecy is more then just "wildly random numbers".

[ QUOTE ]
oh, i guess the service also includes as a free throw-in the possibility of having your account siezed because the software is against the site's T&C. but that's never told to you by prophecy.

if prophecy were a legitimate business, they would put in their webpage (or if they have a method of pushing a message to their downloaded client) immediately a note to their customers containing as good an explaination as possible of the current goings-on, as well as a note to not use their product until such time as the matter is clarified.


[/ QUOTE ]

The ToS from Party Poker.

"7. Anti-Cheating Software.

We are committed to detecting and preventing software programs which are designed to enable artificial intelligence ("AI Software") to play on our Services such as, but not limited to opponent-profiling, player collusion, cheating software or anything else that we deem enables you to have an unfair advantage over other players. You acknowledge that the Company will take measures to detect and prevent the use of such programs and AI Software using methods (including but not limited to screen scraping or reading the list of currently running programs on a player's computer) and you agree not to use any AI Software and/or any such programs."

The bold area of the statement pretty much covers any program that a poker player could use. It even covers forums where poker strategy is talked about.

As a moderator Citanul do you inform new posters that they could be breaking the ToS for Party Poker and therefore putting there accounts at risk?

I can understand you don't like our program, but I hope that doesn't blind you to the fact that anyone in the poker software business is technically breaking the rules according to the ToS for Party Poker. In fact, the wording is phrased in such a way that Party Poker can basically ban anyone for any reason, which we are not faulting. It's Party's call, the ToS is intentionally vague and open to their interpretation only.

As for our customers we are here and answering emails and giving refunds to those people that are unhappy with our product as long as they are within there 30 day trial period.

[hobbes9324]

Somehow I hope so - otherwise, I have a mental picture of Scrooge McDuck, sitting on giant bags of coins, watching the player count and laughing.....
Just jealous, I suppose.

[bluewilde]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm pretty sure they ipoed on the london stock exchange whilst i was on hiatus, but if not, it is their intentions to do so soon.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, they did. It was in the Economist (elsewhere too I'm sure, this is just where I saw it) like...2 weeks ago.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually it is 39.99 now and we have over 7,000 customers that feel the program helps them playing Poker. Our program is designed to help out those players that are not "pro's" and would like a basic read on the skills of the player next to them. I'm sure we could go back and forth on this for several posts, but I can assure you Poker Prophecy is more then just "wildly random numbers".

[/ QUOTE ]

well i certainly am happy for you that you have started fleecing people for twice as much money as before! part of my problem is that these people "feel" they are getting a better handle on the game, etc. they aren't really. your numbers are in no way accurate. while there are cases where yes, knowing if someone's a total tool or a seasoned pro will help you out, your product doesn't claim to do even remotely close to what it says it does, provide complete records. complete records would be a quite helpful service. sadly, no one is providing it. and yes, as you confirmed, your clientelle is basically that group of players who thinks "hey, i could use an edge." i highly doubt you have 7,000 wonderful glowing testimonials of your software. rather, you have 7,000 people who once decided to pay a fee. there's a big difference.

[ QUOTE ]
"7. Anti-Cheating Software.

We are committed to detecting and preventing software programs which are designed to enable artificial intelligence ("AI Software") to play on our Services such as, but not limited to opponent-profiling, player collusion, cheating software or anything else that we deem enables you to have an unfair advantage over other players. You acknowledge that the Company will take measures to detect and prevent the use of such programs and AI Software using methods (including but not limited to screen scraping or reading the list of currently running programs on a player's computer) and you agree not to use any AI Software and/or any such programs."

The bold area of the statement pretty much covers any program that a poker player could use. It even covers forums where poker strategy is talked about.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, it doesn't. "software programs" are not the same as "webpages." get real. you can't hope that your argument comes close to making sense. or holding water, or whatever.

[ QUOTE ]
As a moderator Citanul do you inform new posters that they could be breaking the ToC for Party Poker and therefor putting there accounts at risk?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i don't. that's because it doesn't. i will right now warn people that discussing in real time hands that are in play by using either the posting or the pming functionality of this webpage are most likely outside the T&C of party. beyond that, again, you're just being nutty.

[ QUOTE ]
I can understand you don't like our program, but I hope that doesn't blind you to the fact that anyone in the poker software business is technically breaking the rules according to the ToS for Party Poker. In fact, the wording is phrased in such a way that Party Poker can basically ban anyone for any reason, which we are not faulting. It's Party's call, the ToS is intentionally vague and open to their interpretation only.

As for our customers we are here and answering emails and giving refunds to those people that are unhappy with our product as long as they are within there 30 day trial period.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, they're quite specific. they are basically anti poker software that is not their software, or another poker site's software i'm assuming (eh, they're probably against that too, but not in the same way) running at the same time as theirs. and hell, if what they are saying is that you guys, and all other "poker helper softwares" are against their T&C, well, that's ok. i've openly said that i hate your software, your company, and your spammers. i guess i should add that i hate the pokeredge people too, and all the other people who put fear into people who are playing the sngs, or other players on party, in order to make them pay for a service in addition to the rake they are already playing. especially those that don't provide the services that they say they will when you hand them your money.

the fact that your company's response to party saying that your software is explicitly against their T&C is "well, next version they won't be able to catch" is still just outrageous to me. are you going out of your way to tell your existing customer's of party's statements about the kosherness of your software? and the risks involved in their continued use of same? oh, wait, looking at your webpage (splashy btw, as a former web designer, you get an oooh and an aaah), it doesn't look like you are. very nice. good to see that you have your customers' best interests at heart. very clearly not your own financial interests!

also good to see that you're refunding purchase prices for those people who are within their trial period, not say, all those people who thought they were buying a lifetime of use of a product, only to realize that continued use could cost them thousands of dollars. good job.

citanul

[LesJ]

Citanul,
That was an incredible, intelligent, well thought out response on this issue. I wasted my $20 on the Poker Prophecy software a few months ago. I NEVER found it prudent to help in table selection or in reading players at the table. It was fun, every once in awhile, however, to ridicule a irritating opponent by announcing his lackluster win percentage to the table when appropriate.
I am now deleting the software before I head back to Party to play in the 200K Guaranteed MTT tourney tonight.
As to our friends at Poker Prophecy . . . I don't really want or need my $20 back, I had $20 worth of fun out of it. But please don't try to pawn this off anymore as a useful tool for serious poker players.
Thanks,
Les

[duke44]

For the time being we are sticking to our standard 30 day return policy. When and if Party bans accounts, or if they decide to continue sending e-mails, we'll address the situation at that point. One option is to move all of our current customers over to Poker Stars at no charge. Our Poker Stars product will be out in two weeks. Another option is to refund anyone that wants one. There are other options as well. The point is, it's not come to the point where we have to make that decision until Party has a chance to review the circumstances now that management is well aware of the situation as opposed to one person in security pulling the trigger. We are in this for the long term and will treat our customers accordingly.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
It was fun, every once in awhile, however, to ridicule a irritating opponent by announcing his lackluster win percentage to the table when appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this is terrible. I really hope you see why, but you probably don't, since you actually posted this crap here and thought it's funny or something.