suited connecters

I have now been playing online for a while and have a 50,000 hand sample, which I know is not huge (not the point).... I have a pretty solid win rate, but am down money with all my mid-low suited connecters.... I know that these should be among my most profitable hands .... is there any general concensus as to a theory on how to play these???

[nanoCRUSHER]

Limit or No Limit?

[binions]

Suited connectors are not huge moneymakers in any position at limit.

For limit, look at the pokerroom stats.

Remember that you are about 3.2:1 against flopping 2 pair or better, an 8 out straight draw or a 9 out flush draw with 0-gap suited connectors.

The reason to play these hands in the appropriate circumstances is to vary your play.

[ QUOTE ]
is there any general concensus as to a theory on how to play these???

[/ QUOTE ]Late position after multiple limpers.

limit, sorry

I have read in numerous places that suited connecters should be among your most profitable hands if played correctly.... is that wrong?

You have been reading too much Brunson. I think too many people overvalue them. In NL, you play them the same way as in limit, that is, you see a cheap flop with a lot of limpers to get the odds to justify playing them. If you're losing money with them, you're putting in too much with them to see the flop. You will lose with them far more than you will win with them.

[UATrewqaz]

One thing you must also learn when playing suited connectors is discounting outs

You may flop an OESD on a 2 flush board, so you really don't have 8 outs if you suspect someone is on the flush draw

You might also end up with the bad end of a straight draw, etc.

Suited connectors are tricky.

[tshak]

Suited connectors were probably a lot more profitable when people didn't play them much and couldn't put you on that hand. Brunson would call a raise with a couple callers even though he knew that he was way behind. He also knew that he could break someone on a big hand when he hit the flop hard because they wouldn't put him on calling a raise with such a weak holding. These concepts are less usefull today because it's almost common play, although that doesn't make them unprofitable. Part of their profitibility lies in allowing you to steal pots when all low cards come. People are more likely to believe that you have low cards that hit when their big cards missed if you're known for playing those low cards. So when he calls on the button with any two cards (for example), he picks up most of the low flops. As you can see a big part of this is playing the person and using suited connectors as an element of deception, not using them for their card value, which is relatively weak.

When it comes to limit most of these concepts simply can't be applied. You can't "break" someone in limit. Implied odds are much smaller. With big suited connectors it simply comes down to pot odds. With little suited connectors I usually just throw them away. I can't imagine them being profitable unless I was playing a bigger game where players were actually paying attention to your calling range.

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]
I have read in numerous places that suited connecters should be among your most profitable hands if played correctly.... is that wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

At limit? Nope. Below JTs, they are virtually unplayable in early position in many games. IMO, the suited 0-gappers become playable in mid to late position in unraised pots after 2 limpers. The suited 1-gappers are playable in late position in unraised pots after 3 limpers.

It's rare that you can cold call a raised pot with a suited connector, but if it's just 2 bets, you are in late position, and it will be a family pot or close to it, go ahead and call.

At limit, the problem with playing in raised pots with suited connectors is that the raise destroys your implied odds. In other words, if you pay $20 to see the flop with 4 others, you will have to make more to break even on your initial investment than if you had only spent $5 to see that flop.

Because of this reason, it is unwise to play suited connectors in early position for a call, because there are too many behind you who can raise.