Demonize the Liberals

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]

Traditionally, scoring political 'points' is the left's first priority and the truth is just a tertiary priority...

[/ QUOTE ]

You are generalizing and unfair. There is no way you can ever prove the "tradition" that the left's "first priority" is to score political points. And even if it were the first priority of some individuals, it is unfair to criticize all of them with such a blanket statement.

Durbin's statements were an opinion, not a fact, it was therefore flawed (in MY opinion) but it could not have been a bald-faced lie.

Kerry could have made a mistake in his recollection about Nixon on the radio, which is different than a lie. He could also have been lying, but my guess is it was a stupid mistake, because obviously someone was going to easily discover the timing problem.

As for the atrocities, when Kerry was young, he was in the difficult position of balancing his duty as a soldier with his personal duty to protest a war he thought was wrong. He made some mistakes, yes. My guess: he saw some atrocities back then; he backtracked later because of all the pressure he was getting from vets. So I think he did make some statements for political gain, but it wasn't the comments he made back then, it was the backtracking he made more recently. In my opinion, therefore, he did not aid and comfort the enemy for political gain, but because he thought what we were doing was wrong.

You completely ignored Kennedy's quagmire statement in your last two posts; I guess you are conceding that you and many conservatives with liberal-bashing agendas were unfair with that criticism.

NONE of the above adds up to some tradition of the left seeking political points while avoiding the truth, that's for sure.

-ptmusic

[Greg J]

Yeah well, even so, they are not part of the adminstration. Sorry.

[kurto]

You're a nice guy, ptmusic. Very patient.

I usually just get nasty and condescending when anyone starts off with ridiculous generalizations like, "Traditionally, scoring political 'points' is the left's first priority and the truth is just a tertiary priority..."

You provided a well measured and polite response.

I can't help but think that either of our approaches will have any effect. Yours is probably just nicer for everyone else to read!

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[trippin bily]

[ QUOTE ]
Santorum, along with Frist, DeLay and the overwhelming majority of the Senate Republicans are well coordinated with the White House (i.e. Rove and Cheney) in terms of making sure the talking points that the diabolical duo wants spouted.

[/ QUOTE ]
I cannot stop laughing at " diabolical duo "
I may pee on myself....again.

[trippin bily]

No pt they jumped on the word Quagmire because it is symbolic of Viet Nam which is symbolic of the US losing.

[Felix_Nietsche]

Kerry could have made a mistake in his recollection about Nixon on the radio, which is different than a lie. He could also have been lying, but my guess is it was a stupid mistake, because obviously someone was going to easily discover the timing problem.
************************************************** ***
Kerry spent four months in combat at Vietnam (the shortest combat stint on any swift boat veteran). Nixon was not president during those four months. He lied.....


You completely ignored Kennedy's quagmire statement in your last two posts; I guess you are conceding that you and many conservatives with liberal-bashing agendas were unfair with that criticism.
************************************************** *
The leaders of the left say so many unpatriotic and untrue statements that it would be a full time job to answer to each one. Kennedy claimed the elections in Iraq would not happen. They did and were very successful. The next step is the drafting on their constitution. Then a second round of elections. One Iraqi leader said another two years of security provided by American troops should be enough. Sounds like steady progress is being made to me. Kennedy is using binoculars to read a newspaper.

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
No pt they jumped on the word Quagmire because it is symbolic of Viet Nam which is symbolic of the US losing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain the connection please.

By the way, even if there is some connection, the word "quagmire" fits both Iraq and Vietman.

-ptmusic

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
Kerry could have made a mistake in his recollection about Nixon on the radio, which is different than a lie. He could also have been lying, but my guess is it was a stupid mistake, because obviously someone was going to easily discover the timing problem.
************************************************** ***
Kerry spent four months in combat at Vietnam (the shortest combat stint on any swift boat veteran). Nixon was not president during those four months. He lied.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Reread my post. I said he might have lied. But he could have heard Nixon on the radio before Nixon was President, right? But my main point was that even if he did lie, it doesn't lead to a conclusion that the left traditionally lies for political gains as their first priority.

[ QUOTE ]

You completely ignored Kennedy's quagmire statement in your last two posts; I guess you are conceding that you and many conservatives with liberal-bashing agendas were unfair with that criticism.
************************************************** *
The leaders of the left say so many unpatriotic and untrue statements that it would be a full time job to answer to each one. Kennedy claimed the elections in Iraq would not happen. They did and were very successful. The next step is the drafting on their constitution. Then a second round of elections. One Iraqi leader said another two years of security provided by American troops should be enough. Sounds like steady progress is being made to me. Kennedy is using binoculars to read a newspaper.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's asking you to go through every supposed unpatriotic statement spoken by Kennedy or anyone else? My point, again, was that Kennedy was not inaccurate in calling Iraq a quagmire, which is exactly what the Bush administration has been calling it (using words with the same meaning).

As for your latest points about Kennedy making predictions that did not come true, you are correct. But that's not what I was criticizing you about at all. And besides, the Bush administration has made many incorrect predictions about the Iraq war as well. So if you are suggesting that Kennedy's poor predictions are somehow "unpatriotic and untrue", then you must call the Bush adminstration "unpatriotic and untrue" as well.

-ptmusic

[andyfox]

David Halberstam's first book on Vietnam was called The Making of a Quagmire.

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
David Halberstam's first book on Vietnam was called The Making of a Quagmire.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, thanks.

Is the title of that book why people criticized Kennedy for calling Iraq a quagmire?

And what is so wrong with comparing Iraq to Vietnam, in terms of both of them being difficult, costly, politically divisive, and (depending on your point of view) a bad idea to begin with and unwinable? I mean they're not exactly the same, of course, but they are both quagmires.

-ptmusic