Encouraging your table to stall in a tourney (long....as usual)

[dogmeat]

[ QUOTE ]
"So if I live in a high-crime area patrolled by the LAPD, and I am mugged and robbed, I shouldn't expect a proper criminal investigation?"

LAPD? The same folks that allowed OJ to walk?



[/ QUOTE ]

Gee, I seem to remember that OJ went to trial - a jury let him walk.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[FlFishOn]

I'm guessing you're too young to remember. The LAPD was put on trial and found guilty of racism.

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
Think the players are screwing you? Quit or fight on equal terms but don't expect life to be fair.


[/ QUOTE ]

So by your argument, we should accept the inequalities that arise at the table and accept grievous rule breakings? Such as collusion?

By your argument, if we want an equal footing we should adopt the tactics of those that are cheating us? Such as collusion?

Good luck selling your argument dude.

[FlFishOn]

"By your argument, if we want an equal footing we should adopt the tactics of those that are cheating us?"

You don't read so good, do you? The first option was to QUIT! Don't like the game? F-ing QUIT! Just don't bust my hump about my own choice if it involves leveling the playing field. I won't be crying to Mama.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
"By your argument, if we want an equal footing we should adopt the tactics of those that are cheating us?"

You don't read so good, do you? The first option was to QUIT! Don't like the game? F-ing QUIT! Just don't bust my hump about my own choice if it involves leveling the playing field. I won't be crying to Mama.

[/ QUOTE ]
He's just adorable isn't he?

[GrannyMae]

[ QUOTE ]
Teacher,Teacher! Bobby's chewing gum!

The expectation of fairness shocks me in it's naivety. You are gambling! Online! In f-ing Gibralter or Curaco! Understand that you are responsible for the level of fairness you get. Think the players are screwing you? Quit or fight on equal terms but don't expect life to be fair.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is not about life being fair, scuzcheese. it is about collusion and diqualification.

do us all a favor, huh? --->

[FlFishOn]

Why are you reading my posts when it's clear from your responses that you're not reading my posts?

Use IGNORE and save your BP.

[Adde]

[ QUOTE ]
Teacher,Teacher! Bobby's chewing gum!

The expectation of fairness shocks me in it's naivety. You are gambling! Online! In f-ing Gibralter or Curaco! Understand that you are responsible for the level of fairness you get. Think the players are screwing you? Quit or fight on equal terms but don't expect life to be fair.

[/ QUOTE ]

People like you makes the world a worse place. Go away!

Adde

[grinin]

Wow that sucks Bob.

I agree with the previous poster that it is Party's fault for not going hand for hand. This is what precipitated the problem.

I also think anyone telling others how to play was violating the rules.

However, lets get on the slippery slope and think about if he had simply stated in chat: "you know we have 7 players at our table and the other table has 6 and its not hand for hand, I wonder, if we were to stall every hand wouldn't it make it more likely that all 7 of us would win" and then take his full clock every time play came to him and show every hand that he simply checks down instead of mucking like QQ, KK, AA, straights, flushes, sets, etc. (as long as he isn't last to act on the river with the nuts) Would that be considered cheating?

What if he simply says "I think I'm going to take my time, wink, wink, hint, hint" and showsdown all his hands? .... What if he leaves out the wink, wink, hint, hint? He is no longer telling others how to play.

[MicroBob]

I think that's an interesting argument.

Conversely, last night I thought, "Well...if party isn't punishing these guys for it....then what if I took the next step and told my table that the other table was conspiring against us and they should all fold around to me to try to help me make the money."

Obviously getting the opponents on my table to agree to fold-around to me when they are trying to win seats would be quite the long-shot.


to be fair...there are a couple of issues I want to elaborate on.

1. There was mostly one short-stack on their table stalling and then there was me on our table stalling. I was specifically stalling because I saw that they had somebody who was doing same.
The person who said "If they want to play that game then we will win because we have 7 players and they have 6" was first trying to figure out that it wasn't hand-for-hand. We thought it wasn't at first.

Here's what happened: It was hand-for-hand with 30 players left.
Then with 20 players left it stopped being hand-for-hand but it took some awhile to realize that.
It was really weird.
Then with 12 players left it went back to hand-for-hand again.

So the original discussion on their table was "stop stalling...it's hand-for-hand you morons" and then somebody else said "no..it isn't anymore."


There was SOME discussion about it on our table too...but it was my opponent saying "Hey...they're all stalling on the other table because it isn't hand-for-hand anymore."

Something like that.

But again....I think that reporting to YOUR table that the OTHER table is openly talking about stalling is different than telling people at your table, "Hey...we should stall to screw those guys over."


It was mostly me and another short-stack at my table..along with the short-stack at their table.


Finally...the person who was leading the charge tried to get everyone to agree to stop stalling.

All of these discussions were very awkward because there was no observer chat. We were discussing it across the tables via our own chat because we knew some people were looking at both tables.

I'm not really whining here imo.
I'm not sure if they would find this to be sufficient to grant me the seat but thought it was worth a shot.

in the end, there was some stalling on both tables and it possibly didn't effect the outcome.


Moreover, I think that openly discussing colluding needs to be taken care of and I've reported some even when it didn't effect me in the least.
Anytime I see someone who is crossing that line I tell them that openly discussing it at the table is inappropriate..and I've reported a couple to support in situations.

I believe this is the first time where I have reported it AND I happened to finish on the bubble.

So I hope that at least sort of proves that this isn't JUST a case of the bubble-boy being bitter (tongue-twister there).


Also - for the person who asked...I can't retrieve the HH with the guy with AA...because it wasn't at my table (it was at the other table) and I didn't mark it down.


1 or 2 months ago I was awarded a $215 refund from an Aussie-Millions qualiifer entry that I never expected to receive.
I was really happy with how they handled that one (no colluding going on in that one...they just entered me in the next day's qualifier after I unregistered from one but I didn't know it so I got blinded away...and they gave me a refund).



Anyway...here's the most recent response from them. It would appear there will be no refund for me on this one. I may still call though...but have just sent them another e-mail for now:


-----------------------------------



Dear Bob,

Thank you for contacting us.

Thank you for bringing this to our notice. We do see that the player
has been announcing how the rest have to play. We agree that this is
against the established Poker Etiquette and amounts to violation of the
same.

Based on your report and subsequent investigation, we have,

1) Sent him a warning letter, stating that such actions are not
encouraged in this card room and further action might be initiated if similar
actions are repeated.
2) Flagged his account to periodically review the player?s activities.

Bob, we thank you for bringing this to our notice, as this is in
keeping with our priority of keeping up the integrity of this card room and
the fairness of our games. It indeed is heartening to have players like
you in this card room who care about the integrity of our games.

Contact us anytime, we are available around the clock to assist you
with your account related questions and suggestions.


Sincerely,

Ravi
Investigations Team



-------------------------------



I see that you are taking some action against the offending player.
but this is more than just 'established poker etiquette' that he broke.
It is clearly against the rules and is colluding.


So you are letting a player who colluded BENEFIT from his action by allowing him to keep the seat.
What about those who were affected by his actions in the tournament?

It is not fair that I am playing by the rules and that he is going out of his way to get the whole table to 'team up'.
It is clearly colluding.

What if I tried to get my table to team-up against them to counter their collusion?
I did not do this but I could have.
Instead, I chose to play within the rules.

I am deserving of some compensation in this matter.

Should I take more significant steps next time such as trying to convince my table to fold the blinds to me so that the other table doesn't "get their way"?
I didn't do that because it is collusion and is against the rules.

I look forward to your response.

Thank you,
Bob