($2000) L1, AK TPTK facing minraise

[Munkster]

Step 4 Higher - I took a shot last night seeing an easy field.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG+2 (t1000)
MP1 (t990)
MP2 (t960)
Hero (t1000)
CO (t1100)
Button (t945)
SB (t985)
BB (t1045)
UTG (t1025)
UTG+1 (t950)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t15, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, CO calls t60, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls t45.

Flop: (t205) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t300</font>

Reads:
My image is unknown - I am under a new screen name and this is the first hand I have played in this tournament
Villain - I watched her in the previous step 4 SNGand she seemed to be one of the more weaker players: loose pf (called an allin and a reraise allin w/77 (10bb stack), did not fully understand pot odds (75/150 blinds and she was bb for ~ 425 chips (280 after posting), folded to button push).

I usually raise a little more pf here (65+) but I felt the field was more weak tight than usual.

A couple of questions,
What's my line after the CR?
What's my line if she CR allin?

I feel the optimal line will be something like p% call, (100-p)% fold (esp regarding the 2nd question, if you call/fold all the time it can be easily exploited).

Thanks in advance,
f

[bigt439]

With her limping UTG and playing the flop the way she did I think you're up against a weaker ace a lot of the time if she is as bad you say. Sure it's a set sometime but I can't imagine folding here against the player you described. I'd call and push to a bet or check on the turn. It's doubtful that move is a FD. Again, if the players are as bad as the one you described your metagame calculations are unnecessary.

[schwza]

i would call the c/r and plan to get a-i on any turn card. from the sounds of the player, could be a lot of small Ax hands, and i think calling the turn is the best way to stack off.

for question 2, p = call % = 100.

what is step 4 high payout schedule?

[Munkster]

1st - 10,000
2nd - 5,000
3rd - 3,000
4th - 1,500
5th - 500

What if the villain is a solid unknown player (ignoring my read) - what would you do given the action?

Re: Schwza
under what conditions (if any given the structure) would you consider folding AK HU after hitting the A? if the villain reraises to 400?)
Assume no reads.

Thanks,
f

[RiverDood]

This strikes me as exactly the way a weaker player would handle A8 or A4 that just made two pair.

Villain would limp UTG with such a dubious hand in the first place (especially if suited); call Hero's small preflop raise with a dominated hand, and then try to trap on the flop.

I realize at higher levels this shouldn't be happening. But everything in the read suggests that we're seeing someone with more rudimentary skills and strategy.

In that case, Hero is drawing very thin and should let go

[ZeroPointMachine]

MTT wisdom says to avoid donking off your stack with TPTK early in a tournament. However, this isn't a MTT, stacks are really too shallow for much maneuvering and this is a pair of aces(so overpairs are not possible). UTG range is really hard to narrow down here. What she has done is narrowed your range. If your PF raising range was something typically tight like TT+ and AQ+, you are probably c-betting here 90% of the time. You either have an ace or you go away. Her min-raise now has you laying down most of your PF raising range. Hell, you're considering laying down AK some portion of the time. She could have a set, another ace, KQ of hearts, a goofy 2 pair, any pocket pair or complete air. The stacks are too shallow to play TPTK weakly here. If you had a really strong read that Villain is not capable of making a play then maybe you can fold. From what you've given I would say Villain has a little gamble in her.

Another thought: If villain can beat TPTK, why would she take the lead from you here? She's not afraid of a flush draw with the suited Ace on the board is she? If she has top two pair you have 3 outs, top and bottom gives you 6 outs. Everything about her raise smells bad to me. If I go broke here then so be it.

I think a better question would be how deep do stacks have to be in order to get away from TPTK(aces or kings). I think they have to be almost twice this deep before I can do it.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
1st - 10,000
2nd - 5,000
3rd - 3,000
4th - 1,500
5th - 500

What if the villain is a solid unknown player (ignoring my read) - what would you do given the action?

Re: Schwza
under what conditions (if any given the structure) would you consider folding AK HU after hitting the A? if the villain reraises to 400?)
Assume no reads.

Thanks,
f

[/ QUOTE ]

do you want the villain to be solid or unknown? against an unknown, i'd take the line i described above (call F, push T).

if the player was a known star who was buying in directly to 1k stt's then i don't really know how i'd play it. i try to avoid playing against poeple who fit that description.

[Munkster]

I agree w/ most of your analysis, thanks.
My plan was to call flop and fold to her push on the turn (if she pushes). Like everyone said, there is a strong possibility for her to be just taking a shot at me w/ that minraise (although I do not think she is good enough to be that tricky to take a shot on an ACE High flop if that makes any sense) - I do not have a strong read, so folding was not a consideration. However, I felt that if she does push/bet turn, I am less than a 2:1 favourite to have her beat and a fold is correct - any comments?

I definitely agree we should not be folding here a majority of the time or else I would be taking a shot here against the PFR everytime (If you are laying down AK w/ A on the flop, you will be also laying down AQ/KK/QQ/JJ/TT, so taking a shot at such a weaktight pfr is hugely +EV).

The other questions I had were just out of curiosity to see what times, if any, would you lay down AK TPTK HU early in a SNG. I guess the conclusion is never given the shallow stacks.

As to the hand, I called and the turn was a K (non heart) and I knew I am not going away now. Once she checked the turn I knew I was golden (very unlikely for her to check a set there), I pushed and she called w/ A4 and my hand held up.

Thanks for all the responses and any additional comments are welcome,
f

[tewall]

<font color="white"> nt </font>

[RiverDood]

Nice outcome. Glad to see the best hand preflop held up.

I remember seeing that move with A4, etc. all the time at the play money tables a couple years ago. People did it constantly. Everything about your description of Villain made me think you were up against someone at that level of savvy.

If we were dead solid certain that you were drawing to a three-outer or five-outer, then it's a hand to release after Villain's flop raise, no? But given other posters' belief that she might also be raising with air, the flop call and cautious approach on the turn sounds like the winning ticket.

Glad it worked out.