Online card counting

[blackize]

I was messing around the other day and found a casino with a very odd setup for blackjack. You have a live video and a dealer who is dealing from a shoe. It seems to me that it would be very easy to count cards in this situation. A clever person might actually be able to set up a nice spreadsheet or program to keep track of every last card.

The min bet is $5 and the max is $300. Blackjack pays 3:2, dealer does not check for blackjack with a ten up, dealer stands on soft 17. Given these rules could card counting actually be profitable? Furthermore, should I try it?

[otter]

wrong forum, 'll give a response though since I know a lot about blackjack....What are all the rules? I would have a hard time trusting it. They could easily stack the shoe (can't rememer the term) and add more 5's. PM me if you want to talk more and I'd be very interested to take a look at the site.

To answer your other question, If the rules are s17, bj3:2 then yes card counting will beat the game in the long run if it's honest espescially w/ a 1-60 spread

[MicroBob]

if not checking for BJ with a 10 up then we also need to make sure that they aren't taking your 'double-money' when you split or double-down (usually when they no-peek with a T up they just take the original bet on a double-down if you lose the hand).


It's also possible that they never NEED to shuffle.
If they are using a continuous-shuffling-maching than card-counting just ain't gonna happen (because the discards are immediately put back into the shoe after each hand).


However...if you can see that it's a regular 6-deck shoe with decent penetration (and you trust them enough to not stack the deck...although I have no idea how or why you could actually have this amount of trust in them) then conceiveably it COULD be possible to count it.

It would also be possible for THEM to check your betting-patterns and see that you are pretty obviously counting just based on your bet variation.
but with some decent disguising and a VERY sophisticated count you might be able to make it profitable for a stretch without being detected.


However - just winning will be enough for them to take notice even if you use every single side-count index in Peter Griffin's Theory of Blackjack right down to getting to make goofy plays (when the count is right) like splitting your 3's against a 10 (which I got to do in a live casino once with a surplus of 7's and 8's remaining in the single-deck).


Even IF all the rules and dynamics are right to make it potentially +EV...it will NOT be +EV for you for very long because they will simply stop you from playing there.
And if they are REALLY snitty about it they might say "you were varying your bet-size in a really inappropriate fashion and you clearly are a professional. Therefore, your winnings are being confiscated by us because we think that card-counting is cheating."
I would suspect that the chances of this happening are higher than you might think. consider the number of online-casino 'bonus-abusers' (as they like to call them) who couldn't get their own money back.


In other words...there's no freaking way I would try to card-count at an online-site even if it WERE possible because the house just doesn't like to lose money.
In poker there is ZERO concern about winning money (for the most part) because the house makes their profit either way.
But in blackjack...the casinos have learned to become VERY protective against potentially winning players (even though most of them actually aren't long-term winners).

[otter]

Another thing that I didn't even think of what they could even have a seconds dealing shoe and no card counting in the world could beat that!

[blackize]

They have a see through shoe that they deal out of which is on screen constantly. The put the dealt cards into another shoe on the other side of the table after each hand.

It is a pretty reputable casino site actually, but I will read their TOS thoroughly before I actually sit down and try to count there.

[xxx]

Are you sure it isn't shuffled after every hand?

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure it isn't shuffled after every hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The put the dealt cards into another shoe on the other side of the table after each hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

[daveymck]

I think it is reputable there was an article in a magazine about it in the uk, its for people who dont trust the online casinos. They have girls doing the roulette wheel and dealingetc and I think are planning on doing poker they have these huge cards so that you can see them on the camera.

[stir]

The key thing here that was only mentioned once is penetration. Even if everything is totally on the up and up as to no seconds, no contnuous shufffler, etc., you are wasting your time counting unless you get at least 75-80% penetration before they pull the remaining pack to start a new shoe. (You didn't say but I'm assumming a 6 or 8-deck shoe).

[tonypaladino]

Why don't you post the name of the site, so we can actually see this setup. Because I honestly think you're making it up.