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Old 09-08-2005, 03:10 AM
RainDog RainDog is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Default Another PokerRoom rake post: 5/10+

Here's a selection of "random" hands from poker tracker. As I'm typing this, I don't really know what the results are going to be. Some folks have claimed that for 5/10+ PokerRoom's new rake deal might not be that bad. UglyOwl and others have demonstrated that it's horrible at 2/4 and below. It would be nice if we could determine where it becomes worthwhile to play there. If enough folks could post some data, we could come to a conclusion. I play shorthanded mostly (avg 4.1 players) and I don't play at PokerRoom or skins currently so I can't really apply good full table data or PokerRoom histories to this study. But I'm going to select one hand chosen randomly from 68 different sessions in PokerTracker to a few sites and PokerRoom.

Pot/Players/Absolute Rake/PartyRake/PokerRoomRake

125 6 3 3 3
75 5 2 2 2
4 9 0 0 0
107 7 3 3 2
12 3 0 0 0
22 6 1 1 .50
87 6 3 3 2
20 6 1 1 .50
20 5 1 1 .50
12 7 0 0 0
102 8 3 3 2
27 8 1 1 .50
12 5 0 0 0
102 8 3 3 2
4 5 0 0 0
112 9 3 3 2
12(f) 8 0 0 .50
52 9 2 2.50 2
20 8 1 1 .50
107 8 3 3 2
52 7 2 2.50 2
10 8 0 0 0
12 6 0 0 0
62 7 3 3 2
100 2 1 1 1
100 3 1 1 2
12(f) 5 0 0 .50
207 8 3 3 3
20 4 1 1 .50
49.84 2 1 1 .50
10 3 0 0 0
97 8 3 3 2
4 5 0 0 0
12 6 0 0 0
52 5 2 2 2
30 2 1 1 .50
32 6 1 1.50 .50
4 3 0 0 0
127 4 2 2 2
115 6 3 3 2
37 7 1 1.50 .50
72 4 2 2 2
97 6 3 3 2
70 7 3 3 2
32 7 1 1.50 .5
35 6 1 1.50 .5
12 4 0 0 0
15(f) 6 0 0 .5
45 3 1 1 2
30 2 1 1 .5
4 2 0 0 0
110 5 2 2 2
90 9 3 3 2
10 2 0 0 0
150 3 1 1 2
75 4 2 2 2
77 9 3 3 2
4 3 0 0 0
10(f) 2 0 0 .50
10(f) 3 0 0 .50
4 2 0 0 0
97 7 3 3 2
12 8 0 0 0
12 5 0 0 0
70 6 3 3 2
35 8 1 1.50 .50
4 2 0 0 0
30 5 1 1.50 .50

Total Rake: AP- $86 / Party- $90 / Poker Room- $69

So overall, PokerRoom is a clear winner over this meager sample of hands. Party has the highest rake here, but with the biggest player base. Absolute is in the middle, but with some the best bonuses in the biz. Up to you where to play. This sample is enough to suggest that not everyone should be running for the hills. Some low limit players are getting screwed, yes (run fast!), but not everyone. I imagine that results at PR are even better for higher limits. I'm curious where 3/6 falls, but I'm done. My results for 5/10 only suggest that the rake at PokerRoom is a good deal for 5+ players. I'm still inconclusive on heads up and 3-4 players. I meant to do several sites, but I'm tired.

Note: I without thinking took the last hand from each session. This is when tables start getting full and I leave. So this info is unintentionally better for full table players and not as helpful to me personally. I also didn't know that my spaces weren't showing up in the post. Oh well.
  #2  
Old 09-08-2005, 03:56 AM
SoCalRugger SoCalRugger is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2
Default Re: Another PokerRoom rake post: 5/10+

Another thing to think about for 5/10 players is the bonus clearing rates. As an example, PowerPlayer.com (PokerRoom skin) has their $1000 Neteller reload, which was 10x, but has changed to 16x (points) under the new schedule. Since most of the raked hands at 5/10 are raked $2+, it effectively becomes an 8x bonus (or maybe 8.5, somewhere around there). Not a bad deal.
  #3  
Old 09-08-2005, 04:23 AM
Patchmaster Patchmaster is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 49
Default Re: Another PokerRoom rake post: 5/10+

I ran some numbers tonight for $2/$4 using the 25k hands of data I have at that level. According to my numbers, the average rake at $2/$4 is going up 44%, from $0.84 to $1.21, and I didn't include the newly raked hands below $8 because it was too difficult to count them. The problem is the rake is only going down in a fairly narrow range between $20 and $23.99 (8.5% of pots), and in the very large pots that account for fewer than 6% of hands. 8.3% remain the same. The rake for every other post-flop pot has gone up.

I've cashed out most of my money. I'll maybe play a bit of low end NL, but I'm done with limit at Poker Room.
  #4  
Old 09-08-2005, 03:13 PM
Wyers Wyers is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20
Default Re: Another PokerRoom rake post: 5/10+

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing to think about for 5/10 players is the bonus clearing rates. As an example, PowerPlayer.com (PokerRoom skin) has their $1000 Neteller reload, which was 10x, but has changed to 16x (points) under the new schedule. Since most of the raked hands at 5/10 are raked $2+, it effectively becomes an 8x bonus (or maybe 8.5, somewhere around there). Not a bad deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does this bonus become 8X at 5/10? All hands raked at $1+ are credited with 1 Player Point. No additional points are credited for hands where the rake exceeds $2.

Am I missing something?
  #5  
Old 09-08-2005, 03:32 PM
SoCalRugger SoCalRugger is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2
Default Re: Another PokerRoom rake post: 5/10+

Revised Player Point Structure

Rake Player Points
<$0.05 0.00
$0.05-$0.09 0.05
$0.10-$0.14 0.10
$0.15-$0.19 0.15
$0.20-$0.24 0.20
$0.25-$0.49 0.25
$0.50-$0.99 0.50
$1.00-$1.99 1.00
$2.00 and above 2.00
  #6  
Old 09-08-2005, 08:44 PM
Wyers Wyers is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20
Default Re: Another PokerRoom rake post: 5/10+

[ QUOTE ]
Revised Player Point Structure

Rake Player Points
<$0.05 0.00
$0.05-$0.09 0.05
$0.10-$0.14 0.10
$0.15-$0.19 0.15
$0.20-$0.24 0.20
$0.25-$0.49 0.25
$0.50-$0.99 0.50
$1.00-$1.99 1.00
$2.00 and above 2.00

[/ QUOTE ]

See. I was missing something... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I may take the time to complete this one.

Thanks
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