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Old 02-11-2005, 09:24 AM
The Truth The Truth is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 207
Default hmm...

Local 5-10 potlimit game, rotating rounds of omaha high and holdem.

so-so game, 2 god bracelet winners. 1 huge fish, directly to my right. plays 90% of his hands, raises 75%.
His initial raise is potsize, but he will often slow down.

I am on the button and get delt, AhAs6c7c. utg limps (solid player), folded to the manic to my right who bets 40, I raise to 100, blinds fold, utg calls, manic reraises to 300.
I have about 2k infront of me, maniac has about same, and solid player has about 1500. I know the maniac isnt scared to get the rest of his chips in, but the last raise means something.

line for the rest of hand?
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Old 02-11-2005, 01:46 PM
flawless_victory flawless_victory is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 144
Default Re: hmm...

1. how big is your bankroll?\
2. how much does this raise mean?
i would make it $1000 to go...
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Old 02-11-2005, 01:51 PM
LoveMyAces LoveMyAces is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 73
Default Re: hmm...

I would call and see the flop before getting the rest of my stack involved. The more information you can get before gambling the better in my humble opinion.
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Old 02-11-2005, 01:52 PM
The Truth The Truth is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 207
Default Re: hmm...

1. bankroll is plenty big enough for this game, so not worried about bankroll concerns in making the decision.

2. the raise means a good bit id say hes got at least KKxx double suited.

I agree with reraising to 800(pot) to try to knock out the other player.
I wanna see if anyone has suggestions of how to play this both ways.
if you raise or dont raise, and either way the 3rd player comes along and flop comes:
6 7 9 all hearts.
they both check to you.
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Old 02-11-2005, 09:38 PM
muckdumper muckdumper is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12
Default Re: hmm...

i sensed it was a semi-bluff with a high drawing stright possibility maybe with an ace high flush probability.i think he had you this time with legitimate hand worthy of near 50/50 chance was it king high flush on other end posibility also????did he nail you?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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Old 02-11-2005, 11:57 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 375
Default Re: hmm...

In a cash game in this situation with the stack sizes involved and considering he is a maniac, I almost always only call his initial raise, since there is not even 1 nut flush draw possible and the 2 side cards are relatively low. If you could raise enough to set youself or him in then I would do it. But since he is a maniac and will most likely bet any flop, you now have to call that last 1K yourself if you reraise not knowing whether he hit it or not. And if you only reraise as you did to 300 and then call, he still most likely knows what you hold if you are seen as a tight player. Typical hands that I have seen a maniac reraise with after having raised initially indeed include a better KK but also something like AKJ9ds.

By only smoothcalling, you give yourself a chance to trap him with a good flop, which will not only include an ace of course but a low board pair with no flush draw possible or a hand with your 2 sidecards. And since the other player involved had only 100 in the pot already as opposed to the circumstance when he is between the maniac and you, the amount of his dead money being left is not enough of an issue to me to tip the balance into reraising.

All AAxx hands are not created equal, and in any case even the best AA hand such as AAJTds is not much more than a 2-1 favorite in omaha, unlike the situation in holdem where aces are a 4.5-1 favorite over another pair. I would only reraise holding double suited aces or single suited aces contain two higher adjacent cards.

It is frustrating playing plo against a maniac who is always raising and betting, thus putting the pressure on you to make a big hand or a big draw on the flop, and in plo I believe maniacs have found their perfect game. Nonetheless, I try to see the flop and thus evaluate how big my edge is then before putting a lot more money in, when I am against a maniac who will call any amount of money to see the flop and then will chase with any low percentage draw or bottom pair only. Plus by escalating the pot even though holding the best hand then, you are making more nearly correct his betting/calling allin on the flop by virtue of the odds being laid by the pot to his remaining stack.

One thing is nearly for sure, if you reraise and he does not set you both in, then it will be awfully hard to get away from even the ugliest flop for your hand like QJ9.
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Old 02-14-2005, 04:28 AM
gergery gergery is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: SF Bay Area (eastbay)
Posts: 719
Default Re: hmm...

Seems like call is best.

You are trapped by your stacksize, as reraising the max here puts around 45% of your stack in, which makes it too much $ to want to fold on the flop, but not enough that you are both pot committed. So you're in the nether region, and guessing on the flop.

I'd also think abit about what the other two have. If UTG has AA then your outs are gone and you could be an underdog to maniac, whereas if you could rule that out you're much better off. And if maniac has KKxx then you are a much heavier favorite than if he has JT98ds for instance.

Not a big a deal in ring games, but if he's a maniac, you might be better off waiting to see the flop and know you are a significant favorite, vs. getting $ in now where you are likely to be less of a favorite. Depends on how much you don't like variance, both financially and emotionally.

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