Help!

[FeliciaLee]

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Felicia, if I read one line right you do have a large hole in your game. You admitted to not charging other hands enough to stay with you, nor betting enough for value. That in itself is a huge gap and will especailly kill aspirations of playing higher limit stud than you do.

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You are correct. Yes, I freely admit this, it has always been a huge hole. I have read 7CSFAP until it's falling apart (I keep glueing it together), and I know what to do, I simply fail to do it, trying to fool myself into thinking I'm playing lower limits than I'm really playing, and I'm looking to "trap" my opponents later in the hand. This has always been a thorn in my side, perhaps because I started out playing 1-3 and 1-5.

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There's a 300-600 Razz game? Who plays in this game and where is it? Razz is such a simple game (compared to other forms of poker) that I cant believe one expert would have any type of significant advantage over another. As for tournaments, like you mentioned yourself its a diffrent ballgame from cash games. Going years before you finally see the results is not out of the question.

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I was at Commerce during the LAPC. That is when Ted and I got to chat a bit outside of the tournament area. Ted was playing 300/600 and 400/800 Razz. Most of the time it was shorthanded. I would imagine that game only gets going during a major event, but who knows. There is so much disposable income in LA, and so many people wanting to play against the best, that I'm sure there is some dead money floating around.

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As far as a plan to help you I'm not sure what to say. I know like me you've read and reread every poker book on the market. A higher limit coach might be the best idea if you could find someone willing. Would Ted look over your game as a favor? I actually even have wanted a coach to look over my game. I just dont know any high limit players (even though I'd be willing to pay a lot of money) that would do so. I still feel like I struggle with when I want hands in and out in large overante stud games. This is a topic I would love to consult with a world class player about. I wish I could say that you would find the answers on this stud forum. But while we have some very good regular posters, none of us would compare to getting Zee or Forrest to look over your game. I wish you the best of luck.

Mike Emery

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Yes, a high limit coach is exactly what I was truly asking for. Ray has already turned me down. From things Mason has said in the past, David pretty much only coaches HE. Some other people I've contacted, with excellent reputations say the same sort of thing, Hold'em is the game of the future, and that is the only thing they are willing to do. My long term goal is to become the best Stud player in the world (high aspirations, eh?), although I could use a heap of help in my HE game, as well.

I'm not sure about Ted. He is a very private man. While he seems to think nothing about bankrolling players he barely knows, and lending out money, he has a reputation of keeping his mouth firmly clamped when it comes to specific advice and strategy. Perhaps he would be willing to help me, but I am just now starting a friendship with him even though I first met him a year ago!!! We are finally beginning to e-mail, and I don't want to ruin a fragile start by asking him to do something he has refused to do for others in the past and making him think I am only interested in how HE can make my game better, instead of being his friend.

As we get to know each other better, I will be able to gauge how he would feel about coaching me in Stud games.

Thanks for your excellent points!

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[scottv]

You've played in much higher money games than me, so what do I know? But, I'd say the thing to do is be the best money player you can be and just blow off the tournaments. How many times do you hear of big tournament guys lossing in a big money game? I really think the play between money games and tours are that big of a difference. You know what your issues are in money games work on those and forget big tours.

[FeliciaLee]

Okay, now you had to go and complicate matters further, Scott, lol.

Here's the thing, I love tournaments. Yeah, I'm a total junkie! The increasing limits versus the stagnent chips, the pressure. Cash games to me are like going to football practice. Tournaments are like playing in the "big game." Most football playing junkies wouldn't just want to keep practicing forever, would they? They'd want to play in a real game eventually!

That's me, I'm hooked.

One adjustment I have made is to increase my Stud cash game play, in order to bankroll my tourneys. No more trying three stupid one table sats with a crapshoot structure. I'll make the money in the cash game if I'm going to buy in.

So I have incorporated cash games back into my overall poker play, whereas I rarely played cash games for a very, very long time after getting bit by the tournament bug. I think that is a step in the right direction, but I feel it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the other help that I need.

Thanks!

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Gitz]

Felicia,

Your at a crossroads you do need help. I would either ask David Sklansky (if he's still giving lessons) or John Feeney (If he will help). If they won't help you they will recommend someone I'm sure.

Paul

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i think it would be absoletely awesome if you got Ted Forest to coach you.

but if you're wondering about people on this board, i doubt you can find anybody else qualified, aside from snakehead as Michael Davis pointed out.

[fnord_too]

How well do you understand and work on tournament theory stuff? This may sound trite, but in the middle to late stages of tournaments, decisions diverge more and more from ring game decisions, and making these changes is extremely important. It sounds like you err on the side of passivity from your post (not value betting, etc.) Aggression is of paramount importance in tournaments, and if you are not playing aggressively enough you are just going to get killed.

My suggestion (ont the tournament side) is along the lines of some others: Play a lot of low buy in tournaments on line. Stars has lots of limit tournies for various games. Game type does not matter so much. Four no limit, there I would recommend playing at one site until comfortable then trying another site, since the tournaments play significantly different on different sites. Also, post hands in the MTT forum.

For ring game stuff: You said Ray Zee declined, did you ask him if he could reccomend someone? I think the other suggestions of playing at a level where the money doesn't matter to work on your aggression are good. Of course the obvious caveat is that as you move back up you are going to have to readjust dramaticaly. But on the up side, playing in many differt styles of game has got to help with adjusting to the specific mix of people involved in any specific hand you are playing, and adjusting to table conditions dynamicly is a skill that is necessary to beat the biggest games (from what I've heard, I pretty much only play on line and only up to the 15/30 level there, and that's limit HE, not stud, so take my ring game advice with a grain of salt.)

[Andy B]

I'll be your coach. No one's harder on people than I am. I'm just nice on the forum because there are already enough pricks on here.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I have a problem with tournament play, in that I rarely cash, so I've more or less quit playing in them. Well, there's a $400+40 NLHE tournament at Canterbury tomorrow, and I'm thinking about it, but I'm probably not going to get my ass down there before 11 am, am I? I like tournaments too, but it's really frustrating when you get to the coin-flip stage, and I just don't seem to do very well at coin-flips. I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say that some of these tournaments are "poorly strucured." Do they use ante/bring-in structures unlike what you find in mid- and high-limit cash games? Or are they half-hour rounds, or you start with too few chips, or what? Anyway, if they are poorly structured, and they don't suit your style, why play in them?

And you can't possibly be 100% dead money. You might be a money dog--I've never seen you play--but not dead money.

As for not value-betting enough, I suggest that you be for value more often. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] A pivotal moment in my poker career came in a $15/30 stud hand I played perhaps three years ago. Low card brought it in for $5, and I was one of four or five limpers with (55)6. On fourth street, I caugth a Trey, and it was checked around. On fifth, I caught a second Trey and bet $30. Denny Axel raised, and I was the only caller. I don't remember his exact board, but it was something like 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="red">2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]</font> 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] On sixth, I caught a Four, giving me an open-ender to go with my two scraggly pair, and bet out. Denny was visibly surprised by this bet, but I thought he might have made one of his small-pair-with-a-draw kind of raises. On the river, I caught no help and checked. Denny bet, I called, and he showed Eights and Deuces. He had indeed started with a three-flush, paired the Deuce, caught a fourth club on fifth, and then paired his Eight on the river. It seems like a really easy bet on his part to me now, but at the time it inspired me. Most stud players miss bets like this. I'm guessing you do too. Go out and find these bets. And make them while you're at it. For my part, I now find value bets where they don't even exist. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[jkinetic]

Dear Felicia,

I think I saw you playing a few satellites while I was playing a satellite of my own, next time you are in town and I see you, I will formally introduce myself.

Anyway, I will break this down into 2 parts:

Cash Game:

You shouldn't feel that discouraged if you are having success else where and not at Commerce. In LA and Commerce in particular, they/we play at a different speed that takes "outsiders" some time to adjust to.

Case in point, one of my really good friends made money in AC for 7 straight years before moving out to LA. He could not win at Commerce for almost a year. It took him all that time to adjust to the "speed" of the Commerce game. And I have more than just one story of similar situations that would support my hypothesis that it takes time to adjust to the Commerce style of play.

Tournaments:

I think this comes down to experience, the more you play them the better you will get. This is something I would like to work on myself as I predominantly play cash games. But I notice these tournament players, that will remain nameless, that sit at my table in a cash game, whether it be limit or big bet, and I just see them get sliced up.

And then I would think to myself how come they are so terrible in this cash game but then could probably beat me good in a tournament and then I came to this conclusion.

1. Their skills are more suited to a tournament style of play than a cash game. Which may be the case for you and me, remember very few players are successful at both. This is not to discourage anyone from trying to be successful at both but that the record shows that few are able to accompish it.

2. They have more experience at tournaments than I do as I have more experience at cash games than they do. So in order for me to reach their level, I have to approach the hours invested in tournament play as they have.

This leads to my theory why these YG's(Young Guns) have been having so much success at tournaments recently is, even though they are young in age, but because of the number of tournaments online, they are long in tooth in terms of tournament experience.

On a side note, because they play in front of a computer all the time, they tend to lack the "feel" necessary to win in B&amp;M cash games.

Final Note:

My unsubstantiated feel on your play is that you probably fall on the weak tight side, which seems to be prevalent amongst a lot of 2+2ers I notice. That was the problem with my friend that I had mentioned from AC, he was admittly weak tight, because that style of play was good enough to get the money in AC.

Obviously whatever style you have developed has had success, but that is not to say it will have success in any type of game.

See to me, what separates the players from those that play is the ability to change gears. That means cash games or tournaments.

I hope my insight helped.

Good luck.

[FeliciaLee]

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Felicia,

Your at a crossroads you do need help. I would either ask David Sklansky (if he's still giving lessons) or John Feeney (If he will help). If they won't help you they will recommend someone I'm sure.

Paul

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Thanks, Paul, but these are both HE coaches, from everything I've heard.

I have loose plans to meet with Mason tonight in Vegas, so I'll find out for sure before I contact either.

[FeliciaLee]

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How well do you understand and work on tournament theory stuff? This may sound trite, but in the middle to late stages of tournaments, decisions diverge more and more from ring game decisions, and making these changes is extremely important. It sounds like you err on the side of passivity from your post (not value betting, etc.) Aggression is of paramount importance in tournaments, and if you are not playing aggressively enough you are just going to get killed.

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There ya go. The problem at Commerce is that there IS no sitting around and waiting stage of the tourney, like there is in most other events I've played in. I don't have that hour or two to watch the other seven players. I don't have that window to see whom I can steal from, who will fold to a scare card, who only plays pat hands and who will play lots of drawing hands. I don't have time to see who is memorizing cards and who is just playing by the seat of his pants.

There IS no early stage of a Commerce event, it goes from the middle to late stage, and that is it, if you know what I mean. I do play my hands pretty aggressively, but the problem is that I'm rarely in a hand, so if I get outdrawn, that's pretty much it for me.

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For ring game stuff: You said Ray Zee declined, did you ask him if he could reccomend someone?

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This is a good suggestion! I have spoken with Barry Greenstein about it, lately, and he made the point that in this day and age of incredibly easy poker, anyone who would have the time and desire to coach and/or mentor me is NOT making money, and the last person I'd want in my life. Something to think about, anyway...

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]