Yes, I limped UTG with 10 BBs

[EverettKings]

Stars 22, 1k entrants down to 70 maybe (money started at 81)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t2000 (7 handed) converter

CO (t14618)
Button (t70260)
SB (t65588)
BB (t39792)
Hero (t19587)
MP1 (t9743)
MP2 (t13667)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero limps....

Table was typical late 22 style. On the tight side but people were standing up to raises a bit and stealing with decent frequency. I'd been fairly active with my steals but not maniacal.

I fully expect more than one person to absolutely hate this limp. It's counterintuitive and feels funky at this stage. However, given this specific stack situation, I didn't like any of my options. Folding feels way too tight. Raising less than all in basically commits me to call an all in given my stack and hand strength. open pushing is the only other real consideration, but it felt wrong as there are still 6 others to act and some decent stacks out there (and I'd be praying for a coin flip if called).

So I limped. If a short stack pushes I'll probably call, and I'll probably fold if a big stack puts a big raise in. It felt kind of meh, but I didn't expect anyone to mess with my limp without a pretty big hand. I figure AT/KQs/77 type hands will probably limp behind and I can play a flop. I guess I liked the idea of limping for a decent chance at a flop more than folding or pushing.

Blah. Tell me if and why this sucks.


Everett

[betgo]

It's not terrible, but I would just push.

I wouldn't necessarily fold to a big stack raise. The later the raiser and the looser his play, the more likely I would call.

[fnurt]

I don't see your thinking as all that absurd. The miniraise is another play to consider in this type of situation. (Some will say the miniraise obviously signals a hand that you're looking to get away from - others will say the miniraise obviously signals AA/KK!)

If you get raised, you can definitely form a plan of action based on who raises you. For example, if there's an EP raise, it's likely to be a real hand, but if the button raises, maybe it's just someone who likes to punish limpers. With only 10 BB, 88 is a pretty good hand to gamble with, and your default should be to call a raise unless things look particularly scary.

One advantage of not simply open-pushing is that there are many hands which will give action to a limper (lower pairs, ace-rag) that would never call a push.

Since you're expecting it anyways I'll say it I hate the limp. You're down to <10BBs as the thread clearly states. Before limping I like folding.

Three reasons:
1) If you limp what's the best outcome? You get one or two other limpers hit a set and get paid off. Or it folds to the big blind who checks and then you take it with a bet after the flop.

2)If you limp since it's short handed many poeple realize you probaby won't limp aces here and one of the big stacks in LP/blinds may toss out a nice raise.

3)If you get a couple callers as you very well could with the big stacks in LP/blinds you're more than likely to get a flop you don't like and have to check/fold to a big stack who's betting just because it was checked to him. Or fold when 1 over hits and the big stack in the blind bets second pair and you have no way of knowing what it means and fold the best hand.

If you don't want to commit yourself but don't want to push I would min raise or even toss out t5000. It's amazing how many times late in a tourney this is enough to grab the blinds. And if a big stack reraises you can still dump your hand if it doesn't feel right. Even if the blinds throw out a loose call you will still have enough to push on the flop if checked to and take down the pot. This also most likely gets rid of the SB who probably calls most hands for half a bet in the unraised pot.

At a full table I don't like a push as much. But 7 handed my favorite move here is to push. Worst case you're up against an over pair. Best case you win a coinflip or get a loose call from a big stack with a smaller pair who figured your range of hands for a push from UTG is big. Most likely case though is that you pick up the blinds and give yourself a little more breathing room.

The problem with limping is that, even if no one else chooses to mess with you, you are giving the blinds an excellent chance to out-flop you. Garbage like Q9 that would have to lay down to any kind of raise gets a 30% chance to out-flop you. It's quite likely that neither blind has a hand that could call a raise, but that between them they have 2-3 overcards to your pair.

You almost have to bet any flop checked to you, hoping to use your position to scare out a T on a flop like AT5. And once you bet, you'll have probably 30%+ of your stack in the middle, so you will not be happy about seeing a check-raise.

I think I'd just push here. You definitely have fold equity against a lot of hands that are 46% against you, and some players might even fold 99 or TT. You're a (very) slight favorite against two overs, but with the substantial overlay from the pot, getting called by AK is still a profitable situation.

[chok1]

i think this is a must raise. you're in middle position and if you're willing to call a small stack you should put them all in yourslef. Your position is not great and I think you're asking to be called and sucked out on. You probably have the best hand already. I wouldnt mind just taking the blinds with this hand.

[beetyjoose]

I see this play all the time. I don't hate it, however you're probably not getting away from this hand. So why not raise or push to force out a junk hand that could bust you in the blinds.

On the bright side, you may see a flop without a raise after you. Your UTG limp usually throws up a caution flag as players will think you are slowplaying a big hand. However, at a 22 there are a lot of donks who don't see a raise in front of them and push away.

Anyway, how'd it work out for you?

[EverettKings]

A few comments

1) I know I'm giving the blinds a great chance to hit and other players a chance to see a flop with their mediocre stuff, etc etc. But the point is that I'll have a better chance to take the pot if I get to a flop, AND I'll have a better idea of my chances to take this pot once everyone else has had a turn to act and the flop has come down.

2) I think an open push is probably marginally +EV but that limping here has comparable or slightly better EV with much less variance. But what do I care about variance, since all the money is in the top few spots and I obviously need to build as stack? Because I'm a lot better than this field, and I want to maximize my chances to outplay people. That's why I think trying for a flop gives me more EV, and why dodging a high variance small edge play is a good idea.

3) Minraising is an interesting notion, but since there had been some minraising at this table and it would look as much like a cheap blind steal as a monster, I don't think it will instill the necessary uneasiness in people that I want. Perhaps with different table dynamics.

4) I really dislike opening for 5k or 6k since it begs someone to put me all in, and while KJs probably folds to an open push or limps behind my open limp, he may now push over my vulnerable raise since my stack size represents the prefect amount of fold equity for him to make that play.

I still like my limp, mostly because of #2. I feel like plays like this are crucial to maximizing my edge in small buyin MTTs. If this were WCOOP main event I'd be auto-jamming.

Everett

[schwza]

what are the antes? since you're only 7-handed, i don't see how i wouldn't push.

[Exitonly]

i think i'd be more inclined to do this at a full table.. but only 7 handed:
A) They're more likely to fold to your push
B) The blinds are going to come around faster, so just limping could be tossing away a BB that you'll need badly in a round or so.

I push this.