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  #11  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:27 PM
emil3000 emil3000 is offline
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Default Re: Difficult Turn Decision

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Your flop play is super ugly.

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I sure don't mind the criticsm...care to elaborate?

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That flop is insanely draw heavy, you dont want to be underbetting the flop, and after he raised you, you want to throw in a real potsized re-raise (225-250). I would check the turn.

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Yah, this is correct. Turn play is complicated because of weird flop play which firmly defines you hand as a strong made hand, but fails to idenify your opponents hand and gives him odds to draw. And there's a lot of money left to bet.

I don't really get myself in these situation, but I think the turn is a check as you played it.
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  #12  
Old 12-29-2005, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Difficult Turn Decision

This is what made this difficult. I was looking super-LAG on this table but it was because I'd been running hot (see stack size). I had been getting premium and otherwise raisable hands a lot and I was at about 30/15....which is about 50% higher than my normal preflop stats would indicate. Also, my flop aggression was running high as a result of good made hands and continuation bets...about 7.00. This makes me think that I could get him to push the flop with TPTK/Any 2 pair and hence the "crappy" flop bet. Nevertheless, in retrospect, I need to bet the flop harder because a) he's so rocky he might not play TPTK this way on this board even against a LAG and b) I still should not be giving him correct odds for a flush or nut str8 draw. I was trying to "invite" him to push here and quite frankly, he has never struck me as the type to raise a naked flush or str8 draw...even against me.



You got it.
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  #13  
Old 12-29-2005, 04:49 PM
aba20 aba20 is offline
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Default Re: Difficult Turn Decision

If you bet close to the pot on the flop this hand would be very easy to play.
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  #14  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:00 PM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
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Default Re: Difficult Turn Decision

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If you bet close to the pot on the flop this hand would be very easy to play.

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I don't think it is "very easy". But since you say so, please explain.

Leptyne outlined it extremely well with the overbet.
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  #15  
Old 12-29-2005, 08:14 PM
tradingman123 tradingman123 is offline
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Default Re: Difficult Turn Decision

If you are running super LAG, I would just get it all in right there and then on the flop.

As played, I think you have to ck this turn given villain's less than average trickiness and rock status.
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  #16  
Old 12-29-2005, 10:33 PM
aba20 aba20 is offline
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Default Re: Difficult Turn Decision

Quote:
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If you bet close to the pot on the flop this hand would be very easy to play.


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I don't think it is "very easy". But since you say so, please explain.

Leptyne outlined it extremely well with the overbet.

I hope this doesn't sound to harsh, but you are a moron if you don't want to get all your money in on this flop. If you bet pot he raises you can easily move the rest in on the flop. If he has a flopped straight you have great equity. By only betting half the pot on the flop hero couldn't get all the money in on the flop and had a very dificult decision on the turn.
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  #17  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:05 AM
Mempho Mempho is offline
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Default Re: Difficult Turn Decision

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Quote:
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If you bet close to the pot on the flop this hand would be very easy to play.


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I don't think it is "very easy". But since you say so, please explain.

Leptyne outlined it extremely well with the overbet.

I hope this doesn't sound to harsh, but you are a moron if you don't want to get all your money in on this flop. If you bet pot he raises you can easily move the rest in on the flop. If he has a flopped straight you have great equity. By only betting half the pot on the flop hero couldn't get all the money in on the flop and had a very dificult decision on the turn.

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That decision does have a price...especially against a rock...and that decision is consistency. I bet half the pot because I try to keep my bet sizes consistent...whether I have ace high, an overpair, a set, 2 pair, quads, or a draw. I realize that this seems easy in a vacuum, and people may argue otherwise, but there is value in keeping flop play consistent even if it costs EV on a particular hand. That is, of course, beyond the scope of this discussion. At 100NL or less, people aren't paying enough attention to make this matter. I do feel that the metagame is important at this level, however.

If I was against a superfish, I would make the push here, however, because I'm likely to get called by a TPMK or something of that nature...and most players will know why I did that (because the guy is a superfish)...so it wouldn't be a breaking of that consistency.
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  #18  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:55 AM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
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Default Re: Difficult Turn Decision

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I hope this doesn't sound to harsh, but you are a moron if you don't want to get all your money in on this flop.

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If you read my post above, I said to push. Your simplistic reply wasn't clear.
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  #19  
Old 12-30-2005, 04:08 AM
aba20 aba20 is offline
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Default Re: Difficult Turn Decision

You should be betting more on draw heavy flops with A-high so you can protect your hand when you have a real hand. A half pot flop bet on K83r is fine but not on T96 suited.
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  #20  
Old 12-30-2005, 10:45 AM
Mempho Mempho is offline
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Default Re: Difficult Turn Decision

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You should be betting more on draw heavy flops with A-high so you can protect your hand when you have a real hand. A half pot flop bet on K83r is fine but not on T96 suited.

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OK, I understand what you're saying now. I thought you were advocating changing the bet amount based on your hole cards. Instead, you are changing based on the board....which is fine and likely to be superior.
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