Question for those with <19.5 VP$IP

[TexMo]

From the 30/60 Party Players that I have over 5k hands for most of the winners (greater than $100 an hour avg) play 24.89 - 38.63 % of the flops. I do not know what that turns into for VP$IP but they can play post flop like nothing else [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

TexMo

[Pirc Defense]

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it's an objective judgement.

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But I don't think it can be. If Phil Hellmuth plays &gt;30% VP$IP, would you tell him he's too loose? I'm guessing you wouldn't, because you know of Phil and probably think he's a fastastic poker player with absolutely phenomenal hand-reading skills (whatever else you think of him.) His results speak to this.

You don't know me at all. Raising my VP$IP appreciably, even to around 20%, could be disastrous to my bankroll.

FYI, I've posted here before asking 1) am I too tight, and 2) if so, what hands would I start playing that I'm not now? Wasn't too popular of a thread and the answers didn't provide the magic bullet I was hoping for, and were mostly of the "play more connected suitors and small pairs" type that I feel are incorrect without position and number of players.

Right or wrong, I pride myself in playing disciplined poker. This doesn't mean I won't sneak a pair of two's in UTG if it's a loose passive game, but then this is correct. About the only place I think I would be playing too tight is on the button or in the cutoff, where I sometimes shy away from hands like QJo and K9s and their ilk. I also very rarely play against a non-steal raiser.

Anyhoo, unless you know the player, it's hard to know whether they are playing correctly preflop based solely on their VP$IP numbers, unless it is clearly too high or too low. I don't think ~14% VP$IP is too low. Maybe when I get better post flop I will loosen up a bit.

[astroglide]

regardless of how well somebody plays post-flop i think they are losing money if they are putting money in preflop with 30% of their hands in a full ring game.

it is true that some people may not be able to "handle" playing more hands, but that doesn't make the statement that their vpip is too low any less true - it just appends the statement that their game needs to rise to that level too. everybody can improve their game, including people with the right ranges of vpip.

[stoxtrader]

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From the 30/60 Party Players that I have over 5k hands for most of the winners (greater than $100 an hour avg) play 24.89 - 38.63 % of the flops. I do not know what that turns into for VP$IP but they can play post flop like nothing else [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

TexMo

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how the heck do you log 5k+ hands with ANYONE at the party 30 game?

[eric5148]

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If Phil Hellmuth plays &gt;30% VP$IP, would you tell him he's too loose? I'm guessing you wouldn't, because you know of Phil and probably think he's a fastastic poker player with absolutely phenomenal hand-reading skills (whatever else you think of him.) His results speak to this.


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Good point, bad example. Have you read Hellmuth's book? I'd be very hesitant to say that Hellmuth is a fantastic limit holdem cash game player.

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About the only place I think I would be playing too tight is on the button or in the cutoff, where I sometimes shy away from hands like QJo and K9s and their ilk. I also very rarely play against a non-steal raiser.


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QJo and K9s are very playable from LP in unraised pots. These are the type of hands that astroglide assumed you were folding incorrectly. I agree. It's nothing personal, just advice from winning players.

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Anyhoo, unless you know the player, it's hard to know whether they are playing correctly preflop based solely on their VP$IP numbers, unless it is clearly too high or too low. I don't think ~14% VP$IP is too low. Maybe when I get better post flop I will loosen up a bit.

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It's true that those marginal hands I just mentioned are more profitable for the better postflop player. But so is every hand. Pocket aces are more profitable for better postflop players because they know how to extract the most from them, and fold when they should. My point is, if your a winning player with 14% VPIP, then you could be more of a winner with 16-17%.