Verbally binding?

Lawrence Ng · #1 08-09-2005, 03:34 AM

Here's something that came up a little while ago in a live 10/20 NL game. I was not involved in the hand but there was some heated discussion over it.

Two players were in the hand. Player A had $3000 and Player B had $5000. Player A had some black chips, but mostly green chips and Player B had almost all green chips.

On the river, Player A shoves all-in for about $2000. Player B thinks for a little and verbally declares, "yeah, I call"

Player A then turns over a set. Player B mucks his hand.

The dealer is then counting up Player A's stack which actually worked out to $2055. The dealer then informs Player B that he needs to give $2055.

Player B looks at the dealer and says, "I never called him."

It was very clear that Player B verbally declared a call on the river, but he had made no motion to shove any chips prior to the showing of hands.

The pit was called over of course and made a ruling.

What do you think the correct ruling should be here?

Lawrence

AJo Go All In · #2 08-09-2005, 04:22 AM

i don't understand. are you asking if saying "i call" is binding? is that your question? if so, then, yes, it is binding.

Photoc · #3 08-09-2005, 05:13 AM

I'm going out on a limb here and say that if someone says "i call" then they call, regardless if they pushed any chips in. Normally, you dont push them in unless you lose.

Benoit · #4 08-09-2005, 08:10 AM

Just an idiot trying to talk his way out of losing $2055. Saying an action is as good as doing it with the chips.

The floor did the right thing too, right?

Bremen · #5 08-09-2005, 08:20 AM

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say the floor actually ruled it wasn't a call. Otherwise why would you post this?

Jeffage · #6 08-09-2005, 08:30 AM

Obviously, this should be ruled a call and I hope it was. Welchers and angle shooters like this should be shot.

Though it puts the floor in a tough situation if the guy continues to deny it and refuses to cough up the money. Unlike a bet in blackjack which was in the circle when cards were dealt for the cameras to see, if the guy said call, the only witnesses are at the table. My guess is if he made a huge stink, he has a shot at getting out of it. Like he could say something like, I asked if "That's All?" I mean, obviously BS like that...but what would the floor do in something like that. We're not talking about a $60 bet in a limit game here. My guess is the best the floor could do is have him barred if he doesn't honor his bet.

Would it be dickish to make him push all the money in the middle before flipping up the cards? Curious cause I rarely play NL.

TM1212 · #7 08-09-2005, 08:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously, this should be ruled a call and I hope it was. Welchers and angle shooters like this should be shot.

Though it puts the floor in a tough situation if the guy continues to deny it and refuses to cough up the money. Unlike a bet in blackjack which was in the circle when cards were dealt for the cameras to see, if the guy said call, the only witnesses are at the table. My guess is if he made a huge stink, he has a shot at getting out of it. Like he could say something like, I asked if "That's All?" I mean, obviously BS like that...but what would the floor do in something like that. We're not talking about a $60 bet in a limit game here. My guess is the best the floor could do is have him barred if he doesn't honor his bet.

Would it be dickish to make him push all the money in the middle before flipping up the cards? Curious cause I rarely play NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

O please god tell me the floor got this right! if they didn't I would never return to the cardroom again and urge others not to as well. To not have a verbal declaration stand in a Nl game, destroys the integrity of the game, and the people involved. Its angle shooting in its ugliest form. The guy should be barred for even trying this [censored]!

Bremen · #8 08-09-2005, 08:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My guess is the best the floor could do is have him barred if he doesn't honor his bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know where this was, but they could probably arrest him for theft if he dosn't pay. Although I shudder to think what would happen if actions in a poker game were the focus of a court case. I also doubt the casino would want to pursue this as its not their money he stole.

Falker11 · #9 08-10-2005, 08:46 AM

I sure hope the floor ruled this was a call. If the floor gets somthing this clear-cut wrong, you can be sure I would never come back to this casino again and would probably do someting like calling the gaming commission that oversees this casino. Don't know where that would get me but hopefully it might fix the problem.

Would love to get the results of this soon.

Falker

Al_Capone_Junior · #10 08-10-2005, 02:07 PM

Verbal action made in turn is binding. End of story, pay up now mr. angle shooter.

al