Should I have been more aggressive on the flop?

txdolly · #1 05-13-2005, 02:49 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (3 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets, Hero raises, MP folds.

Final Pot: 6 BB

With a BD flush and an OESD would it have been more profitable for me to be more aggressive on the flop?

Jerkass333 · #2 05-13-2005, 03:30 PM

I think the flop is the only well-played part of his hand. Throw that hand away preflop, its a very easy fold. On the flop, a raise wont prevent a flush draw from drawing, but it will push out weak pairs that you want paying off your straight. Oh, and I wouldnt count your 8 as a backdoor flush draw, it'll rarely be any good 4-handed. I dont understand the semi-bluff on the turn at all, unless you had a good read on him as being capable of folding a pair of aces or even jacks here. Even the semi part of the semi-bluff is weak, since you're killed by a K if you hit a Q, so you're hoping for a 7 and your flush draw could easily be bad. I prefer calling the turn here.

Girchuck · #3 05-13-2005, 04:00 PM

Limping with this hand will get you in trouble very often.
Throw it away, unless you have a good chance to steal. After MP limps, you do not have a good chance to steal.

On the flop, you have a weak draw with only 3 outs to the nuts. You need to make it cheap for you and the overcallers. On the other hand, you'd like anyone with the K to fold. Balance it out. There is 5SB in the pot, if you call, maybe you'll get one or two more, so your pot odds are 1 to 6, provided that neither blind is check-raising, which they could be. And you have 3 7s to give you nuts, a dirty 7, and 4 very dirty ladies. This is a borderline fold.

If you raise and fold the blinds, your pot odds are 2-6 but you probably can count on 8 outs plus about 4 outs of folding equity. If you raise and a blind calls two, you don't have 8 outs, but your odds ar 2-8, still this is one of the worst cases. In the likely worst case, you will be re-raised. You really do not want to be re-raised with this hand.

Turn brings you a pair and a mediocre flush draw, which does increase your number of outs. If you think MP is unlikely to have an A, and will release a J, raising is a good play, because the turn raise is quite scary for anyone who doesn't hold an A or a pat hand. If MP is betting a broadway gutshot, you actually have the best hand, and don't want to see a Q or an 8 on the river. Is this MP likely to bet a broadway gutshot?

txdolly · #4 05-13-2005, 04:05 PM

I figured that this hand would make 2nd best more often, I did consider the blinds and they played weak-tight (would a raise be in order for a steal)? Thanks for pointing out my outs. I sometimes get caught up in making bets feeling that I'm "tied" to the pot and end up making some bad choices which cost me money.

Girchuck · #5 05-13-2005, 04:17 PM

You can't steal the blinds if you don't raise.
If somebody limped before you, you can't steal the blinds.
If you often raise junk like 98o after average limper you will be broke.

txdolly · #6 05-13-2005, 04:24 PM

You're right. I forgot about the limpers. Thanks again