Advice for draw poker online?

[popniklas]

Hi!

Draw poker means fun and nostalgia, at least to me. So I have a few questions about draw poker online for those who have played it:

1. Where can you find the best high draw action? (Paradise?)

2. Do the games usually feature a joker? a jacks-or-better-to-open-rule?

3. How good/bad do people play? Are the games profitable if you are a decent but not great high draw player?

4. Any book recommendations for high draw? I'm considering buying Malmuth's "Winning concepts for Draw and Lowball"

Thankful for anwers. Feel free to share your knowledge on lowball as well. (I have never played lowball, but am planning to learn.)

[Chris Daddy Cool]

paradise and 24h are the only places that i know that feature high only poker.

i've played a bit on the paradise draw games. since i suck at draw i have no real idea if the games are that good or not.

no, the games dont' feature a joker. and no, there is no jacks-or-better rule.

[BluffTHIS!]

1) Although I have only played there occasionally and don't really like the site due to small player base, 24h does have the biggest limits high draw available. Please note that regardless of the blind level, these are POT-LIMIT games played 6-max.

2)No joker and guts to open on 24h -don't know about paradise.

3)24h games are filled with the very good and tricky and the very bad. So they are profitable but you can't be out of position with a good player without a very good hand to win.

4) This is one of the few 2+2 books I don't have. If you can find an out-of-print copy, An Encyclopedia of Draw Poker by James Anno is the best I've ever seen. Please note that this and other books don't give as much pot-limit advice as for limit, and that in the 6-max format on 24h it is rarely correct to open/limp under the gun and false-carding is a critical skill.

[hackle]

I've only played at Paradise, but it usually has a good selection of $1-$2 games. Since you mention nostalgia and fun, this might be just what you are looking for. The $5-$10 games there are often a little rough. I've found the $1-$2 games to be quite profitable, however. The play is mixed, but there are quite a few fish.

One reason for this is that there aren't many in-print books on draw poker anymore. The SS1 Caro section is good, Norman Zadeh's _Winning Poker Systems_ is as well. Mason's book covers Gardena Draw, which is not played at Paradise, but it contains excellent information to get you thinking like an expert draw player. Another great book (and in my opinion the most comprehensive book available on Lowball) is _Free Money_ by Michael Wiesenberg. It, along with the Zadeh book, are available at Gamblers Book Shop (http://www.gamblersbook.com)

However, you don't need to buy any of these to be successful at Paradise draw. Michael Wiesenberg has published a series of columns in Cardplayer that outline a complete strategy specifically for the Paradise game structure. Start with:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...13&m_id=69

And check out the rest at:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...ael_Wiesenberg

Hope this helps,

Hackle

[popniklas]

thanks a lot for the feedback everyone.

yes, since i'm no good at draw poker and only played it in casual homegames i'm only looking for soft lowlimit games. mostly for fun, but of course i wouldn't mind winning some money.

so mason's book covers ONLY gardena draw? does it contain some advice about any adjustmens for other rules or something like that? hm.. anyone read mike caro's "advanced strategies for draw poker"? got a 10 out of 10 by mason in the book review section of gambling theory and other topics.

thanks for the wiesenberg links, btw, i'll surely check them out.

oh and by the way, speaking of paradise poker, do they still have the "granny" bonus and what is the max amount of that bonus?

[lighterjobs]

planet poker also has hi draw games.

[Nick_Foxx]

paradise usually has several tables going up to 5/10... i would say up to 3/6 the games are pretty good, but 5/10 is tough... the games are 5-handed, it's anything to open, and there is no joker... in addition it is played with blinds (small blind/big blind) rather than antes

planet poker offers draw hi w/ joker, but i'm not sure how many people actually play it

mason's book is good but i really dislike the way it is organized, i would much rather there be a separate section on draw and a separate section on lowball... it also will not be very helpful for the on-line game because of the differences mentioned in the initial paragraph

someone else brought up the zadeh book which is a classic and will help your draw game immensely (as well as your lowball, 5-card stud, 6-card stud, and 7-card stud games)

mike

[Tom Bayes]

You've gotten a lot of good advice in this thread. Weisenberg's Card Player articles are, to my knowledge, about the only material available about draw as it is played online. Mason's book and Caro's chapter are good resources, but both assume the structure (antes, jacks-or-better, joker as the bug) present in the California draw games before holdem was legalized.

Here's some of my impressions of the 3 sites I've played draw at (all three use blinds and open with anything):

Paradise: 5-seated limit games from $1/$2 to $5/$10, no joker, no tournaments. I'm not crazy about the 5 player max. Always several $1/$2 tables going-the bigger games don't always go. There are a few big fish and a lot of mediocre players, but a lot of good players as well. There is a core of draw regulars who constantly multi-table hunting out newbies to grind a living off of. Most players know enough to not be chronic limpers. Players range from very tight to maniacal, with most in the middle. The higher limit games are hit-or-miss; the players in those games are either the best or the worst draw players online.

Planet: 8-seated limit and pot-limit ring games, usually only 1 or 2 micro-limit games are running. Most players very poor, either total calling stations or rocks. Most passive draw games on the net. The most common game running is the $25 pot limit with $0.10/$0.25 blinds. Most of the regulars play it like a limit game and rarely make more than min-bets. A pot-sized raise usually means a monster. I think most of the player base is older Americans. Planet used to have draw MTTs which I loved. I hope these tournaments return shortly when they get the multi-tables running on the new software. The blinds escalated slowly and you had plenty of play. The calling stations would bleed their stacks away chasing draws and playing short pairs. The rocks were easy to rob blind in the later stages once the blinds got to a meaningful size.

24h: 6-seated games spread strictly pot-limit. Currency used is Euros rather than dollars. Several tables usually going in the smaller games (0.25-0.50 and 0.50-1.00); I've seen as high as 5-10 Euros being played. Player base is mostly European-many are sports betters. Games totally unlike Planet-these are the most aggressive draw games on the net. There are some very good & tricky players and a lot of complete maniacs. Many players here will raise the pot on stone cold bluffs. 24h also has tourney-I've only played a few. IMO, all tournaments on 24h suffer from a very crap-shooty structure that I do not care for.

P.S. Planet uses a single joker as the bug (i.e. limited wild card which can be used as an ace or to complete a straight or flush). Paradise and 24h do not use the joker.

[popniklas]

thanks for the advice.. i have never heard of the zadeh book before.. i'll try to find a review or something.. perhaps i'll buy it from gamblers book club.

oh and by the way... 6 card stud? where can you play that? seems like an odd form of poker.

[popniklas]

thanks a lot for the info, i appreciate it. planet poker seems interesting, although i'm a bit sceptic due to the lack of players. is it a good site overall? does it take long to clear the bonus? havent heard much of it and i don't really understand how their point based bonus system work.

i have never played with a joker as a bug. in home games here, people rarely use a joker, and if they do it can always be any card in the deck.

i think i'm gonna sign up at paradise right now to check out their draw games.. it's nice to play something other than hold'em every once in a while.