King high flush...

chaz64 · #1 08-09-2004, 01:43 PM

Paradise Poker 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

I'm now thinking I should have raised here...but anyone with the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] would have the correct pot odds to call and hang in there, would they not? Or should I have raised anyway, for "value," and not live in fear of the Ace?

River: (9.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.75 BB
Main Pot: 21.75 BB, between CO, Hero, BB and UTG+1.

chief444 · #2 08-09-2004, 01:46 PM

Raise the flop.

I think the turn call is actually OK...not because of what you were wondering about the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (it isn't going anywhere) but because you want overcalls with such a strong hand.

bisonbison · #3 08-09-2004, 01:48 PM

Raise the flop. you have 3 people in for 1 bet, you have position, and you will make money on every extra bet that goes in.

I would raise the turn (of course if you raise the flop you don't have to worry about this). Don't worry about who's getting proper odds - you have a made hand and are going to win this a ton of the time - get as much money in as possible.

The river sucks but I would have to call all those bets.

Bill Smith · #4 08-09-2004, 01:51 PM

Preflop: Fold this. It's not the worst call in the world, but the only way this hand usually wins is with a flush, and you really need two ways to win to play a hand.

Flop: Raise it up! You have a 2:1 shot at hitting your flush on the turn or river, and therefore you should raise if you can lock at least 2 people into calling the raise. UTG, UTG+1, and CO have already paid 1 - they'll pay 2.

Turn: Raise it up! Yes, A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] has the correct pot odds to see the river, but there is an extremely good chance you have the best hand and you want to charge that A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] to see it. To put it another way, if you're not raising here, when are you raising?

River: You have to call it down, but you don't have to like it. BB probably has the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and CO probably had something like a J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

papawawa · #5 08-09-2004, 02:47 PM

You have 2 callers between yourself and the flop bettor - RAISE! You are getting very decent odds here to draw to the 2nd nuts. On the turn when CO bets - raise! This will charge the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] a whole lot to draw out on you (not saying that it will prevent him though); remember at this point you have the best made hand, and therefore should be very aggressive.

chief444 · #6 08-09-2004, 02:56 PM

Bison,

You're probably right about just raising the turn...but at least give me that it's a little closer of a decision than every one is making it out to be. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] Am I way off base on this?

bisonbison · #7 08-09-2004, 02:58 PM

Chief, I'm sure that going for calls here is good too, and may be higher +EV. I just like to give people a chance to be their loose selves.

I think the lack of a flop raise is the biggest problem in the hand.

chief444 · #8 08-09-2004, 03:01 PM

Thanks bison. Again after thinking about it in what is typically a very loose game I agree that a turn raise is fine. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't completely off on that based on the other responses. Obviously I agree on the flop.

chaz64 · #9 08-09-2004, 03:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

D'oh! Gee, that would have got me a "free card" (which I did not need) and probably would have driven out the Big Blind (who had the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] !)

I am embarassed at my stupidity. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] I really do hope to learn how to play this game someday...

chaz64 · #10 08-09-2004, 03:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Fold this. It's not the worst call in the world, but the only way this hand usually wins is with a flush, and you really need two ways to win to play a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking on Kxs is that I'll play it on the button or CO, not in earlier position. With few opponents, if I hit a pair of kings I might very well have the only King and the best hand; I might also hit a BDFD. With many opponents I have the odds to draw to the flush (although I realize that hitting the pair of kings ONLY will likely mean I'm outkicked).