Blind Battles: Hand #5

[oreogod]

and if u had a pair I see no reason to not go crazy on this flop. There should be no reason to be afraid of getting 3bet, plus u are more likely to get a call down. why call and raise turn? I understand it to mix things up, or if the board was rainbow, or maybe if u have a 3...but with any made hand I think playing the flop hard is much better. Hence the reason more ppl want to call down. Its more likely hes making a move on this board. Unless Im way off base anyway.

EDIT: unless u think you are more likely to get a call down from a turn raise w/ a worse hand...thats the only time I see raising turn as being better with a made hand.

[Surfbullet]

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if i notice that you fold ace high to this turn raise every time i am gonna be raising the turn with bluffs against you super often in these situations.

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you dont know what i have.

people are advocating calling down 90% of the time. thats absurd. 40-50 is plenty high enough to dissuade shots. its unrecognizable.

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I agree. And call down AK-A9 unpaired and muck A8-A2 unpaired for randomization, instead of flipping a coin with whatever Ax you have at the time.

Surf

[Victor]

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if i notice that you fold ace high to this turn raise every time i am gonna be raising the turn with bluffs against you super often in these situations.

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you dont know what i have.

people are advocating calling down 90% of the time. thats absurd. 40-50 is plenty high enough to dissuade shots. its unrecognizable.

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I agree. And call down AK-A9 unpaired and muck A8-A2 unpaired for randomization, instead of flipping a coin with whatever Ax you have at the time.

Surf

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tru dat!

[Victor]

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why call and raise turn?

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bc i have a note that says this, "idiot calls down a-high hu"

[oreogod]

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why call and raise turn?

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bc i have a note that says this, "idiot calls down a-high hu"

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tactful. Im sure most appreciate your comment. also, unless u forgot, there are many times calling down w/ A-high in a HU match is a good thing.

[TStoneMBD]

hi victor. i agree with you that calling down 90% is way too high. i also think folding every time is clearly wrong. either line is very exploitable by a good opponent and if youre always folding this to a turn raise then a good player has you by the balls. always calling down isnt as exploitable because it will still be correct for the opponent to commonly bluffraise you even if he knows youre calling down ace high because your preflop opening range should be very wide and he will often catch you with jack high. if you have opponents who know youll fold this turn quite often with ace high yet never bluffraise, youre in a very good game.

this situation is entirely a feel situation as to how often the opponent is making a play on you or not. i usually fold this turn myself especially if i dont feel like im getting played with but often times i do and will often call down. im more or less looking for frequencies because that is the correct answer to this problem. this is not a black and white problem, its a problem of frequencies. i may not agree with the frequencies given by some replies but at least they realized its a frequency problem.

[Victor]

heres another thing: if we are so adamant to show down our medium ace high what is wrong with check calling down on the turn?

[Victor]

i put the frequencies at 40-50 in a previous post. that may even be too high.

you still havent addressed the discrepancy between this one and the a5o.

[TStoneMBD]

yah thats a really good line. so is mmcd's screwplay. i might start taking those lines more often on this board. bet/bet might be bad as mmcd says.

[mperich]

The situation is TONS different. I think the main difference here would be what your opponent is expecting you to do. In hand the a5 hand he probably wants a call, since ur hand is pretty transparent (your hand range is small and he knows this, thus it's easier to figure out his hand range based on what you know he knows)

In this hand your hand range is very wide. This in turn makes his range a lot larger so there are more options. There are tons of hands you cant call down with here and he knows that, so his bluffing frequency is much larger. I'd say I on the turn im calling 75 folding 25, and then if he fires the river I am probably folding maybe 20% of the time. I think in a vacuum I fold the river more, but since metagame counts I don't.

I like this series tstone keep em coming.

-Mike