Blind Battles: Hand #4 - Page 2

TStoneMBD · #11 12-12-2005, 05:22 AM

yah ok this one isnt really close. its an easy fold i dont know what i was thinking when making the thread.

this is a problem i face against bad players, not good players.

so pretend the BB is a loose/fairly passive player. what do you do on this river now?

Pog0 · #12 12-12-2005, 05:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yah ok this one isnt really close. its an easy fold i dont know what i was thinking when making the thread.

this is a problem i face against bad players, not good players.

so pretend the BB is a loose/fairly passive player. what do you do on this river now?

[/ QUOTE ]

This one should be more of a call than vs a TAG.
On the one hand, he's more likely to have a weaker hand on the river, on the other hand, he's less likely to bluff at you.

However, some players that are generally passive will often bluff the river here after calling down with J high. Some. With a read, it's an easier call, however, vs a loose/passive, I don't think inducing a bluff will often work unless you know he likes to do it. I guess the decision is between bet/fold or check/fold. If he has a very low fold turn %, that might make me more inclined to see a showdown in one way or another.

TheMetetron · #13 12-12-2005, 05:38 AM

I'm probably still folding unless the board is very friendly to my calldown (paired and low, for example).

cartman · #14 12-12-2005, 08:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
so pretend the BB is a loose/fairly passive player. what do you do on this river now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a player of this type who has a tendency to autobet when checked to this is a nightmare, but I still usually fold. If the board is very low then I might call, especially if my kicker is big and he is the type that wouldn't necessarily 3-bet a medium/low Ace preflop.
I have a similar nightmare when my pocket pair ends up 4th or 5th pair on a medium sized board or 3rd pair or 4th pair on a board with a couple of broadway cards. Obviously that is a huge overgeneralization, but what do you guys think about that caliber of pair vs a calling station who tends to autobet when checked to?

Thanks,
Cartman

Arnfinn Madsen · #15 12-12-2005, 09:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I see a lot of your posts where "villain" is a tough TAG.. why do you play against good, possibly superior opponents so often?

[/ QUOTE ]

I see a lot of posts like that on this forum, and I don't understand them. Isn't the point of improving both to milk the fishes more and to improve the range of players you have an edge against. I think we are all very good at milking fish, so improving in that area is not very important while discussing how to turn a good player into a sucker is very valuable.

oreogod · #16 12-12-2005, 09:41 AM

I like discussing how to play against good players. If u are truly intent on moving up the limits u end up playing more and more of them. I actually like playing good players, maybe Im one of the few, but I find it more exciting then playing terrible players. Sure, money-wise its not the smartest thing, but purely for playing value its much more fun.

I know Phil Ivey mentioned something like this in a new interview. Ive always felt that way. Either way, if u are playing 100/200+ u are usually playing the same group, sure there are fishes, but usually if u want to play u have to play good players as well. My understanding anyway. Who knows.

kiddo · #17 12-12-2005, 10:15 AM

Preflop I raise a good, tough player. He calls. I bet flop and turn and he calls.

What will I do on river?

A person who can answer this in a few sentences isnt a good and tough player so he should leave the table as fast as possible.

#18 12-12-2005, 01:05 PM

After reading this article, http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/i...eetin1105.html
I was wondering, since this is a tough player who will defend virtually almost all the time against a sb steal, wouldn't it be better to just complete preflop?

oreogod · #19 12-12-2005, 01:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
After reading this article, http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/i...eetin1105.html
I was wondering, since this is a tough player who will defend virtually almost all the time against a sb steal, wouldn't it be better to just complete preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

that is an intresting article.

TStoneMBD · #20 12-12-2005, 05:31 PM

hi arnfinn. when you get to the high stakes level you need to learn how to play against good players because the good players know how to play against you. if you dont know how to match their skills and are a dog to them you often wont be a favorite enough in the game even if there are fishies. you people saying that you have no interest in learning how to beat good players is truly startling.