Blind Battles: Hand #2

[TStoneMBD]

Villain in the BB is a tough player. Very solid. He hardly ever folds his BB or SB when everyone folds around to us and he rarely folds either the SB or BB. He might be right in playing so many hands against me because he's given me alot of hell and is probably up a good amount in these situations. We play alot together so metagame is important.

He doesn't 3bet me preflop in position all too much but he takes so many hands to showdown. If I were to checkraise the flop here he's calling down with ace high and might even raise the turn with king high. He practically never folds pairs to me but I've noticed lately that my turn checkraises are getting some good respect. In this hand however I can't fold a better hand with a turn checkraise it's not possible. I play my draws hard so if I had a flush draw here I'm checkraising the flop. It might not show profit for this hand but playing my draws hard is why I get paid off on my pairs.

Hero is SB with K5s, BB is the tough player.

Everyone folds to us, I raise, BB 3bets, I call.

Flop is 5Q8r

What do I do here? How often should I be checkcalling this flop and how often should I be checkraising?

Turn is a J

What now?

22+,A2+,A2s+,KT+,KTs,QJ,QTs,JTs resonable 3-bet hands? In that case you are a 52% favorite on the turn. You are definately a favorite on the flop so I can dig a CR. This depends entirely on villains 3-bet range though.

[TStoneMBD]

id give him 66+, A7o+, A5s+, KTo, K8s+, QJo, QTs, JTs

[Surfbullet]

I have no prob with c/c, c/c, bet, if you think he will fire the flop + turn and look you up on the river. If he's a better hand-reader than that then I say stick with the flop c/r...if you pull it with draws and A-his that figure to be good then I'd say mixing in both top + bottom pair is a great way to keep the information loss down. The later streets can be tricky and you may have to risk a free card if you think he'll pop u on the turn wiht a K but that's not as big a deal in a tiny pot imo.

Surf

[oreogod]

Valid lines. Pretty tough to pick one though.

1. rainbow flop, I checkraise, if he 3bets u can call and c/f turn UI I think (unless he expects u to do this with air a decent amount, CRing a rainbow flop looks and usually is a strong move). Or if he calls your CR and raises your turn bet, u can safely fold. If he just calls, Id keep betting usually.

2. if u dont want to CR with a marginal hand, u can bet/call, bet/fold turn. Or bet/call flop and c/f turn.

3. Or c/c flop, bet turn.

[Victor]

how about cr the flop and then check/call down?

[TStoneMBD]

that just lets my opponent take a free turn card when he would often be forced to bet it after ive shown no strength with a flop cc.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
that just lets my opponent take a free turn card when he would often be forced to bet it after ive shown no strength with a flop cc.

[/ QUOTE ]

then check call the whole way.

the point is you are, on average, ahead here so you want to get to sd and not get blown off a hand. but you dont want to put 3bbs in on the big streets.

edit: seems to me you are overplaying these hu situations. hit bad pair, get to sd. hit good pair and raise flop or turn. what you want to avoid is 1. putting a bunch of bets in with a marginal hand. and 2. getting blown off a marginal hand.

If he's aggressive I'll c/c c/c b/f or c/c depending on what kind of trust's there. If he's passive enough not to bet the first two streets for me I'll c/r b/f b/f.

It's difficult to play your hand for any sort of value. Usually I just try and avoid getting pushed off my [censored] hand while getting it to showdown cheaply. The J on the turn doesn't change much when he's 3 betting.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
what you want to avoid is 1. putting a bunch of bets in with a marginal hand. and 2. getting blown off a marginal hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really good advice. I wouldn't recommend altering one's game tremendously, but subtle changes towards getting these marginal made hands to SD can only be a good thing in these overaggro games. IMO I historically have bet-folded far too much when I should be working on getting to showdown, though possibly costing myself some value.

Surf