QQ Turn Play

istewart · #1 12-01-2005, 09:28 PM

This decision might be kinda trivial/dumb but it's been itching me today. I've been trying to incorporate turn checks here more often (although I might be implementing them incorrectly) but I was wondering whether you thought this was an okay spot to do it.

The only two problems I saw with it was that the guy was relatively loose but not very aggressive (55/3/.9, 60 hands), so I'm wondering if checking here is missing too much value from random pocket pairs, nines, king high, flush draws, etc., and at the same time not always collecting a river bluff/desperation bet.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks.

numeri · #2 12-01-2005, 09:33 PM

With a VP$IP that high, villain could actually be fairly aggressive. IMHO, you'll get more value from a PP, 9x, or xy[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] than you will from inducing a river bluff.

deepsquat · #3 12-01-2005, 09:38 PM

Im bet/calling this and seeing a SD

imported_leader · #4 12-01-2005, 09:39 PM

The looser he is the more likely you should be to bet. The more agressive he is the more likely you should be to check. This guy is loose and we don't really know how aggressive. There's a flush draw out there which should make you more likely to bet. I would fold to a raise here.

C-Dog · #5 12-01-2005, 09:39 PM

I think you have to bet this, and you can probably fold to a checkraise.

C-Dog

imported_CaseClosed326 · #6 12-01-2005, 09:40 PM

I bet this and fold to a c/r. They almost always have an Ace.

istewart · #7 12-01-2005, 11:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The looser he is the more likely you should be to bet. The more agressive he is the more likely you should be to check. This guy is loose and we don't really know how aggressive. There's a flush draw out there which should make you more likely to bet. I would fold to a raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Essentially my thoughts. This is what I ended up doing. Would you check here against a tightish-aggro player as well, something like a 23/13/2?

imported_leader · #8 12-02-2005, 05:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The looser he is the more likely you should be to bet. The more agressive he is the more likely you should be to check. This guy is loose and we don't really know how aggressive. There's a flush draw out there which should make you more likely to bet. I would fold to a raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Essentially my thoughts. This is what I ended up doing. Would you check here against a tightish-aggro player as well, something like a 23/13/2?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's so close that it doesn't make much difference between bet/fold and check and call the river. If he's the creative type, it's a clear check. If he's almost incapable of a bluff CR, bet. If you don't know, mix it up.

admiralfluff · #9 12-02-2005, 05:44 AM

IMO, this is a bet and it's not close.

He's far more likely to have a 9, pp, fd, or maybe bdfd with broadways than he is to have an A. He will call a turn bet with almost all of the former hands. Him possibly being tricky enough to c/r as a bluff or semibluff should not deter you from betting, but rather from folding to the c/r. Use your better judgement and specific postflop reads, table image as to whether or not to call down a c/r, but with a player this loose you need to bet.

Your analysis is also somewhat contradictory. If you are worried that he may bluff c/r this turn too often for you to bet, you cannot also expect him to bluff at the river often when you check. You will only induce him to value bet his pps and 9s (which he would call with anyways), meaning you collect 1 less bet.

Weatherhead03 · #10 12-02-2005, 05:49 AM

I bet the turn. You will get called by PPs, 9s, FDs plus anyother garbage they call down with.

Im folding to a C/R. I see trips here way too often.